Philosophical Thought: Winner Mentality versus Whiner (Loser) Mentality

[CondorHero]

Sure, this has been brought up before by forumers.

Winner Mentality: Change yourself to suit the environment
Examples:
1. When ToK Hard/NM is geared, a winner will try to improve his own BR to beat it. If not, do ToK Normal until he is strong enough. Always looking for ways to improve his toon.
2. After being stunned repeatedly by HS and losing battles, a winner tries to figure out ways not to get stunned. This include slow leveling, or trying to level HS as much as possible. This also includes building defense or improving Sylphs.
3. After failing to make the finals for CW, a winner figures out that the way to get through is (in the current system) to lose the first 2-3 rounds and then win all the other rounds.
4. After getting a lot of whites and greens for Astrals, a winner figure out that the drop rate is low and persevere in building astrals despite the low rates.
5. After losing GB finals, a winner understands that there may be glitches in the system, such as the Chariot. He learns how to work around the system and to station his players near the opponents' ward to hit the chariots before it moves too far.

(GingerDaHutt, CreamySaucy and Jackos are example of winners).

Whiner (Loser Mentality): Whine to change the environment to suit you
1. When ToK Hard/NM is geared, a loser come to forums and call the top 8 Cross-server players noob/selfish/{a not so nice word**.
2. After being stunned repeatedly by HS and losing battles, a loser comes to forums and call HS a noob skill. A loser also brings up his credential as the authority in MMORPG and claims that no other game has stuns.
3. After failing to make the finals for CW, a loser comes to forums and call the system a cheat. Calls other players who make the finals hackers.
4. After getting a lot of whites and greens for Astrals, a loser comes to forums and call the system a fail system.
5. After losing GB finals, a loser comes to forums and call the other guild a cheat.

(I shall not name the losers, in case they say I am targetting them).


Discuss.

[Zorich]

Sure, this has been brought up before by forumers.

Winner Mentality: Change yourself to suit the environment
Examples:
1. When ToK Hard/NM is geared, a winner will try to improve his own BR to beat it. If not, do ToK Normal until he is strong enough. Always looking for ways to improve his toon.
2. After being stunned repeatedly by HS and losing battles, a winner tries to figure out ways not to get stunned. This include slow leveling, or trying to level HS as much as possible. This also includes building defense or improving Sylphs.
3. After failing to make the finals for CW, a winner figures out that the way to get through is (in the current system) to lose the first 2-3 rounds and then win all the other rounds.
4. After getting a lot of whites and greens for Astrals, a winner figure out that the drop rate is low and persevere in building astrals despite the low rates.
5. After losing GB finals, a winner understands that there may be glitches in the system, such as the Chariot. He learns how to work around the system and to station his players near the opponents' ward to hit the chariots before it moves too far.

(GingerDaHutt, CreamySaucy and Jackos are example of winners).

Whiner (Loser Mentality): Whine to change the environment to suit you
1. When ToK Hard/NM is geared, a loser come to forums and call the top 8 Cross-server players noob/selfish/{a not so nice word**.
2. After being stunned repeatedly by HS and losing battles, a loser comes to forums and call HS a noob skill. A loser also brings up his credential as the authority in MMORPG and claims that no other game has stuns.
3. After failing to make the finals for CW, a loser comes to forums and call the system a cheat. Calls other players who make the finals hackers.
4. After getting a lot of whites and greens for Astrals, a loser comes to forums and call the system a fail system.
5. After losing GB finals, a loser comes to forums and call the other guild a cheat.

Discuss.

I like it, but I'd make another category called the "Fair Play Mentality" which generally shares the "Winner" mentality, but has a slightly different take on it. The difference in comparison to the two would be:

1. When ToK Hard/NM is geared, they won't blame the players for not ungearing, but implicate the system as being a flawed scaling system that needs to be remedied to allow top-end players to pass top-end levels without creating unfair harassment of high-end players to ungear.
2. After repeated Stuns, may state that Stun is OP based on the high-volume of inactive rounds in a contest, but will not specifically attack / insult the players that use it since it's a valid game mechanic.
3. Regardless of entry into CW Finals, will look down on those players known to exploit the system by taking early losses. Will do so quietly and continue to build BR and take every match in CW as an opportunity to win without using what they consider unsportsmanlike tactics.

Basically, they will attempt to counter potential "exploits" through in-game actions and forum posts - but will not partake of the "exploits" themselves. They will also attempt to create dialogue about poorly made mechanics within the game and suggest improvements.

Unfortunately these people are branded by many of the "Winning" mentality as "Whiners" because of the over-prevalence of the latter rubbing every nerve raw .

Lastly, we all know that it's a lot easier to be a "Winner" with a lot of $ to back it up. I'd also like to suggest a sub-category of earned winners and bought winners. Not to trash those that spend - hell, I'm one of them - but it takes a lot of perseverance and commitment to be a VIP-Only Light Casher with a "Winner" mentality. Even more so as a free player.

I could write more, but I don't want to offend anymore more than I likely already did.

Peace!

[Eskendal]

3. After failing to make the finals for CW, a winner figures out that the way to get through is (in the current system) to lose the first 2-3 rounds and then win all the other rounds.

You found my dark secret.

Edit:

I start doing this tactic because of my 4th CW in which I miss the finals.

Won my first 6 matches (including 2 difficult matches), then the super system decided to put me in the monster cashers bracket. Met like 6 out of 9 players who were in the top 20 from preliminaries including same guy twice. Didn't qualify for finals but 30 players with lower BR than me made it.

So, I thought about losing first couple fights to avoid monster cashers bracket as much as possible.

I honestly like fair play normally. But, I won't play fair in a system that's so flawed and unfair. I don't care what people think about me because I got all the mounts (except wildfire) for free and I get a boatload of free whips each month.

I can't wait for the new CW system where you get same amount of points for each fight. But for now, I won't miss my chance to improve my character only to be a better/fair player.

take every match in CW as an opportunity to win without using what they consider unsportsmanlike tactics.

I don't care about "unsportsmanlike tactics", the system wants to put me against top 20 players where I have no chance to win even with all the skills and strategy I have, sorry, make a better system and I will be happy to fight with fair play.

Made top 100, 6 times out of 8 CW. Maybe I jinxed myself this month, I don't really care.

[Kingryan]

1. When ToK Hard/NM is geared, a winner will try to improve his own BR to beat it. If not, do ToK Normal until he is strong enough. Always looking for ways to improve his toon.

Me, i never do ToK if ToK NM is not naked... I'd do NM or not do it at all. Hahaha

2. After being stunned repeatedly by HS and losing battles, a winner tries to figure out ways not to get stunned. This include slow leveling, or trying to level HS as much as possible. This also includes building defense or improving Sylphs.

Do not do bg at all until you think you have strong defenses/sylph or high HS level

Regardless of entry into CW Finals, will look down on those players known to exploit the system by taking early losses. Will do so quietly and continue to build BR and take every match in CW as an opportunity to win without using what they consider unsportsmanlike tactics.

Basically, they will attempt to counter potential "exploits" through in-game actions and forum posts - but will not partake of the "exploits" themselves. They will also attempt to create dialogue about poorly made mechanics within the game and suggest improvements.

Unfortunately these people are branded by many of the "Winning" mentality as "Whiners" because of the over-prevalence of the latter rubbing every nerve raw .

Lawyers knew that laws have loopholes which can be used to your advantage... A lot of business people use this knowledge to earn more money without having to disobey the law (example with this is paying lesser tax, which means more money on your side)...

So for me, unless Wartune fixes these loopholes, it is ok to take advantage of these loopholes.

A winner mentality would take advantage of these loopholes. The term "exploit" is biased... It depends on an individual's perspective...

We already see here that Wartune is slow (or dead) at fixing at those problems these players whine. If these whiners would instead stop whining, and go along with taking advantage of the loopholes, they would give a more powerful message (more powerful than whining) to Wartune that this problem needs to be fixed or they will be doomed. But since not all players are taking advantage of it, then they just leave it alone.

I fully agree with Condor's post.

[Clin7eas7wood]

Well condor no mater how much you improve if you arent a big spender like top 4 you can forget about running tok nm.Its a cycle you improve they improve twice than you so tok nm will stay a dream/illusion for you.EU players are the biggest whiners zebq came back so they had for a while 3naked 1geared and came here starting the threads how unfair it was hahah it was rly hilarious.Once you taste the power of leeching there`s no coming back .

[mageheal50]

A player can be both. Since one is action, and the other is posts, it is very possible to do both. Even in WB, the top damagers still whine. Lag, late, missed WB, didnt crit, didnt get last hit, etc. At the end of the day, they still got the most gold/daru from WB. In those cases, he is both a winner and a whiner.

EDIT:

.Once you taste the power of leeching there`s no coming back .

QFT

EU players whine when their tok nm is geared. Oceanic/east/west doesnt whine when EU getting good sh i t from tok nm while their servers doesnt

[kattuktk]

Me, i never do ToK if ToK NM is not naked... I'd do NM or not do it at all. Hahaha



Do not do bg at all until you think you have strong defenses/sylph or high HS level



Lawyers knew that laws have loopholes which can be used to your advantage... A lot of business people use this knowledge to earn more money without having to disobey the law (example with this is paying lesser tax, which means more money on your side)...

So for me, unless Wartune fixes these loopholes, it is ok to take advantage of these loopholes.

A winner mentality would take advantage of these loopholes. The term "exploit" is biased... It depends on an individual's perspective...

We already see here that Wartune is slow (or dead) at fixing at those problems these players whine. If these whiners would instead stop whining, and go along with taking advantage of the loopholes, they would give a more powerful message (more powerful than whining) to Wartune that this problem needs to be fixed or they will be doomed. But since not all players are taking advantage of it, then they just leave it alone.

I fully agree with Condor's post.

I always thought paying lesser tax meant disobeying the law

[ancev]

How about quiter mentality: TALK A LOT AND DO NOTHING
1. play the game for a year, invest big so you'll be on top.
2. announce you quit in a thread where you explain how this game has ruined your life; say goodbye to everyone
3. come back the next day to the forum like nothing happened; pretend like you're uninterested in the game but got bored of "real life" in less then 24h. make sure to change signature so everyone knows you are retired.
4. start countless threads about others, trolling and making fun of them for still playing.
5. teach newbies the ways of the game, because...well... you're still sort of a guru

I tried to limit myself to 5 points as well.

[CondorHero]

How about quiter mentality: TALK A LOT AND DO NOTHING
1. play the game for a year, invest big so you'll be on top.
2. announce you quit in a thread where you explain how this game has ruined your life; say goodbye to everyone
3. come back the next day to the forum like nothing happened; pretend like you're uninterested in the game but got bored of "real life" in less then 24h. make sure to change signature so everyone knows you are retired.
4. start countless threads about others, trolling and making fun of them for still playing.
5. teach newbies the ways of the game, because...well... you're still sort of a guru

I tried to limit myself to 5 points as well.

You gotta start a new thread on this one, so you can gain some attention.

[ancev]

You gotta start a new thread on this one, so you can gain some attention.

I'm sorry, am I stealing yours?

[CondorHero]

I'm sorry, am I stealing yours?

Yes, it appears to have diverged from the opening post.

[ancev]

Yes, it appears to have diverged from the opening post.

On the contrary, I was mearly contributing to the OP.

[MrPunkinHead]

On the contrary, I was mearly contributing to the OP.

Ohhhh, snap.

[ImSillPlain]

Nice logic condor, i'm trully impressed while u usually just trolling around, but really, ur logic is very good, i agree with u, well no wonder u could make 2nd in CW lol.
but still, about HS, when a lvl 49 VS lvl 50-is, and when 50-ish VS 60-ish, do they really need to do HS? what is that called if not cowardice? even though it's game system..
i don't mind chaos / amnesia rune. but HS against a lower lvl? they already have lots more advantages.. lvl 50 has sylph, talent, higher skills, 1 more astrals, etc.. lvl 60 compared to 50, has better gear, higher skill lvl, higher talent (beside HS).. they don't really need to stun with sooo much advantages they already have..
it's just.. sometime stun ruined the fun, balanced battle even with different lvl.. should've just enjoy the battle instead of just aiming for win with stun.. well just my opinion.. HS is legal anyway lol..

[R226935530]

Nice logic condor, i'm trully impressed while u usually just trolling around, but really, ur logic is very good, i agree with u, well no wonder u could make 2nd in CW lol.
but still, about HS, when a lvl 49 VS lvl 50-is, and when 50-ish VS 60-ish, do they really need to do HS? what is that called if not cowardice? even though it's game system..
i don't mind chaos / amnesia rune. but HS against a lower lvl? they already have lots more advantages.. lvl 50 has sylph, talent, higher skills, 1 more astrals, etc.. lvl 60 compared to 50, has better gear, higher skill lvl, higher talent (beside HS).. they don't really need to stun with sooo much advantages they already have..
it's just.. sometime stun ruined the fun, balanced battle even with different lvl.. should've just enjoy the battle instead of just aiming for win with stun.. well just my opinion.. HS is legal anyway lol..

yes or in bg someone with 30k more br and 5 lvl higher hs u each time for 3 round really nooblike its not crying or whining if u tell him he suck then.