Philosophical Thought: Winner Mentality versus Whiner (Loser) Mentality

[CondorHero]

Sure, this has been brought up before by forumers.

Winner Mentality: Change yourself to suit the environment
Examples:
1. When ToK Hard/NM is geared, a winner will try to improve his own BR to beat it. If not, do ToK Normal until he is strong enough. Always looking for ways to improve his toon.
2. After being stunned repeatedly by HS and losing battles, a winner tries to figure out ways not to get stunned. This include slow leveling, or trying to level HS as much as possible. This also includes building defense or improving Sylphs.
3. After failing to make the finals for CW, a winner figures out that the way to get through is (in the current system) to lose the first 2-3 rounds and then win all the other rounds.
4. After getting a lot of whites and greens for Astrals, a winner figure out that the drop rate is low and persevere in building astrals despite the low rates.
5. After losing GB finals, a winner understands that there may be glitches in the system, such as the Chariot. He learns how to work around the system and to station his players near the opponents' ward to hit the chariots before it moves too far.

(GingerDaHutt, CreamySaucy and Jackos are example of winners).

Whiner (Loser Mentality): Whine to change the environment to suit you
1. When ToK Hard/NM is geared, a loser come to forums and call the top 8 Cross-server players noob/selfish/{a not so nice word**.
2. After being stunned repeatedly by HS and losing battles, a loser comes to forums and call HS a noob skill. A loser also brings up his credential as the authority in MMORPG and claims that no other game has stuns.
3. After failing to make the finals for CW, a loser comes to forums and call the system a cheat. Calls other players who make the finals hackers.
4. After getting a lot of whites and greens for Astrals, a loser comes to forums and call the system a fail system.
5. After losing GB finals, a loser comes to forums and call the other guild a cheat.

(I shall not name the losers, in case they say I am targetting them).


Discuss.

[Draggyy]

in my guild lvl 67 knight with 70k br missed 2 fights but no on purpose and got 3350 points in end what mean he almost qualify for finals :d

I was always close to it, even when i had lvl 55 set and less than 60 k br. Is like you get a really hard match when you are close, or really easy fights when you are far away. In one of the cw when I was far from qualifying I won 4 out of the last 5 matches and yet again I gained like 3290 points if I am not mistaking. The system loves to tease me lol

[R226935530]

in my guild lvl 67 knight with 70k br missed 2 fights but no on purpose and got 3350 points in end what mean he almost qualify for finals :d

[Eskendal]

Every class wars I have gone in fully dresses/potted/scrolled from the beginning. I have only made the finals twice with a bit of luck & decent BR.

So how do I feel seeing 30-40 players qualify with lower BR because they lose at the beginning lose because they suck? Says who. If they suck they shouldn't have made it. Having a higher BR won't guarantee a win if you can't play properly either. Low BR players should be losing against higher BR players but if the higher BR player isn't on his/her game then its possible they can lose.

The idea is it was meant to be a tournament for the strongest players to battle it.

However decent BR or even high BR players shouldn't be taking their gear/astrals off not potting & scrolling for initial fights while afk'ing in an attempt to deliberately lose so that with some luck they get easier opponents in the later fights rather than have come across the ones they were supposed to being the harder ones.

To do so is exploiting your qualification into the finals, if people hadn't been doing this then more than likely many wouldn't have qualified. Therefore they took a spot that wasn't respectfully theirs.

How would feel if they set it up that what you enter with you are locked in with for the entire duration of all the battles? In other words if you enter deliberately without being fully geared/astrals equipped/potted/scrolled then too bad because that's how you will have to fight for the whole time. That would be fair to everyone, no more exploiting wins for later fights. Enter how you want at your own risk.

I beat players with 10k-15k more BR than me (in Class War and not only one...), thank you, I know how to play. What you don't understand, is not that I don't want to battle big cashers, it's the fact I meet all of them in the last 5-6 fights when we get more points, 350. If I met those guys at the beginning and met some weaker players at the end, I would go fully geared.

Why winning 6 matches at the beginning is less important than winning 6 matches at the end? Explain that to me. That's why I "exploit" the system. It's like you go to a football play off game, and the points they score in the third and fourth quarter are worth more than in the first and second. What's the logic behind that? You can call me what you want, maybe I'm a good player that know how to play and just hate the stupid system that reward people who lose at the beginning whether it's because they do it on purpose or they plain suck (Yes I do it even if I think it suck, do a better system and I will stop).

By the way, I qualified for 2 finals without removing my gear, but still think it's worth it to remove your gear if you're a good player and want to avoid monster casher bracket. Anyway, I said it, I want the new points system. The fights I win at the beginning will be worth the same amount of points, that's a decent system.

[bakuryuuha]

Battle Guardians probably cost $$$.

well..from what i know you can get them by completing lost treasure map events. everyone will have chance to pickup a lost treasure map (there's different kinds). Depending on the kind of map you pick up from the dungeons (not sure which ones), you can form teams of 4 to clear the map. Then you'll have chance to get a battle guardian at the end. Diff treasure maps yield diff types of guardians and you can use balens to change whatever map you possess to a diff one if you had already gotten the guardian from that map and dun need it. Other than balens for influencing the type of map you have, I don't think $$$ is required to get battle guardians. It's all in the patch notes posted on cosmo's blog and wartunes.tk forum as well.

[CondorHero]

Not the fault of the players. Blame the system.

[dackdoid]

Victory is shallow? How would you feel seeing 30-40 players with lower BR qualify just because they lose at the beginning (lose because they suck not because they lost on purpose...yeah that's great) So, let all the noobs in while much better players don't get it in because they met same monsters cashers because system is so "random" and flawed.

Every class wars I have gone in fully dresses/potted/scrolled from the beginning. I have only made the finals twice with a bit of luck & decent BR.

So how do I feel seeing 30-40 players qualify with lower BR because they lose at the beginning lose because they suck? Says who. If they suck they shouldn't have made it. Having a higher BR won't guarantee a win if you can't play properly either. Low BR players should be losing against higher BR players but if the higher BR player isn't on his/her game then its possible they can lose.

The idea is it was meant to be a tournament for the strongest players to battle it.

However decent BR or even high BR players shouldn't be taking their gear/astrals off not potting & scrolling for initial fights while afk'ing in an attempt to deliberately lose so that with some luck they get easier opponents in the later fights rather than have come across the ones they were supposed to being the harder ones.

To do so is exploiting your qualification into the finals, if people hadn't been doing this then more than likely many wouldn't have qualified. Therefore they took a spot that wasn't respectfully theirs.

How would feel if they set it up that what you enter with you are locked in with for the entire duration of all the battles? In other words if you enter deliberately without being fully geared/astrals equipped/potted/scrolled then too bad because that's how you will have to fight for the whole time. That would be fair to everyone, no more exploiting wins for later fights. Enter how you want at your own risk.

[CondorHero]

Battle Guardians probably cost $$$.

[bakuryuuha]

But, the difference is the first 6 matches I win at the beginning before meeting the big cashers will give me 270 instead of 200 or whatever (yes I won my first 6 matches in 4th CW and didn't make finals) so those wins will matter now, not only stupid last 5 fights.

I have 120K BR unbuffed and I see like 30 players with lower BR than me, I don't deserve to be in finals because I can't beat monster cashers because of stupid system, that's bull ****. Can't wait for new system.

Well...we all know R2 su cks so nothing we can do until new contents gets unlocked....only 1 more month+ to go before we see a nerf to sylphs by introducing battle guardians that gives resist against certain elements =P so no more 1 hit KO from most ppl who do not mega cash XD.

[Eskendal]

not like they can enjoy it for long. Once new patch out, the pts gained from win/loss during all the rounds in preliminaries will be the same. So if you lose a few rounds at start vs lose a few rounds at the end, your points is still the same and you'd be matched against players in that range. So those so called exploiters will have no choice but to meet the big cashers then unless they totally skip CW.

But, the difference is the first 6 matches I win at the beginning before meeting the big cashers will give me 270 instead of 200 or whatever (yes I won my first 6 matches in 4th CW and didn't make finals) so those wins will matter now, not only stupid last 5 fights.

I have 120K BR unbuffed and I see like 30 players with lower BR than me, I don't deserve to be in finals because I can't beat monster cashers because of stupid system, that's bull ****. Can't wait for new system.

[CondorHero]

If we consider your topic from point of view of winner and loser Mentality then I would say I agree with you.

But there are many other things that influence the game.

As non cash player I know what it means to work on your stats and improve you character so you can win against casher. But pls tell me which non cash player has any chance against zebq or similar player. No one. And it is not the point of this game. Cashers have higher stats and it is completely ok.

But Zorich mentioned one more category which he called "Fair Play Mentality". That is something that you can not see in this game or is very rare. One player told me that system make them attack players in amethyst. No it is not system. It is your decision to do it. Also it is your decision not to be fair player. So be honest.

And one more thing if someone get 190k br in only few days can you call it player? What was he playing? He was only buying. And yes he can be bully if he wants because this game allows him to be.

A really hope that there are more decent fair players here, casher or non cacher.

The system is unfair to noncashers. But, isn't this what we see in real life?
Is life always treating us fair? No, it treats some people more fairly than others?

The more successful people in life are those who overcome adversity and hardship to build what they have. Not those that go to government and ask for handouts.

[bakuryuuha]

Agree with everything you said but this.



That is exploiting something that was never intended to be part of class wars. Cheating? Not sure, exploiting most certainly! If people can only get a decent score using this tactic their victory is shallow.

not like they can enjoy it for long. Once new patch out, the pts gained from win/loss during all the rounds in preliminaries will be the same. So if you lose a few rounds at start vs lose a few rounds at the end, your points is still the same and you'd be matched against players in that range. So those so called exploiters will have no choice but to meet the big cashers then unless they totally skip CW.

[Eskendal]

Agree with everything you said but this.



That is exploiting something that was never intended to be part of class wars. Cheating? Not sure, exploiting most certainly! If people can only get a decent score using this tactic their victory is shallow.

The point system is such a great idea, that they will change it in a future patch. I know one mage in my guild who won her first 8 matches, didn't qualify for finals because system match her against huge cashers until her last fight. Is she a bad mage? No, system is flawed, stupid and unfair. Victory is shallow? How would you feel seeing 30-40 players with lower BR qualify just because they lose at the beginning (lose because they suck not because they lost on purpose...yeah that's great) So, let all the noobs in while much better players don't get it in because they met same monsters cashers because system is so "random" and flawed. Anyway, I may be shallow, but I got my whips and mounts for free. Each month that I qualify, I'm happy to take the spot of a noob who don't deserve it because he was too weak to win at the beginning and got easier fight at the end.

[dackdoid]

Agree with everything you said but this.

3. After failing to make the finals for CW, a winner figures out that the way to get through is (in the current system) to lose the first 2-3 rounds and then win all the other rounds. Discuss.

That is exploiting something that was never intended to be part of class wars. Cheating? Not sure, exploiting most certainly! If people can only get a decent score using this tactic their victory is shallow.

[R29137335]

Sure, this has been brought up before by forumers.

Winner Mentality: Change yourself to suit the environment
Examples:
1. When ToK Hard/NM is geared, a winner will try to improve his own BR to beat it. If not, do ToK Normal until he is strong enough. Always looking for ways to improve his toon.
2. After being stunned repeatedly by HS and losing battles, a winner tries to figure out ways not to get stunned. This include slow leveling, or trying to level HS as much as possible. This also includes building defense or improving Sylphs.
3. After failing to make the finals for CW, a winner figures out that the way to get through is (in the current system) to lose the first 2-3 rounds and then win all the other rounds.
4. After getting a lot of whites and greens for Astrals, a winner figure out that the drop rate is low and persevere in building astrals despite the low rates.
5. After losing GB finals, a winner understands that there may be glitches in the system, such as the Chariot. He learns how to work around the system and to station his players near the opponents' ward to hit the chariots before it moves too far.

(GingerDaHutt, CreamySaucy and Jackos are example of winners).

Whiner (Loser Mentality): Whine to change the environment to suit you
1. When ToK Hard/NM is geared, a loser come to forums and call the top 8 Cross-server players noob/selfish/{a not so nice word**.
2. After being stunned repeatedly by HS and losing battles, a loser comes to forums and call HS a noob skill. A loser also brings up his credential as the authority in MMORPG and claims that no other game has stuns.
3. After failing to make the finals for CW, a loser comes to forums and call the system a cheat. Calls other players who make the finals hackers.
4. After getting a lot of whites and greens for Astrals, a loser comes to forums and call the system a fail system.
5. After losing GB finals, a loser comes to forums and call the other guild a cheat.

(I shall not name the losers, in case they say I am targetting them).


Discuss.

If we consider your topic from point of view of winner and loser Mentality then I would say I agree with you.

But there are many other things that influence the game.

As non cash player I know what it means to work on your stats and improve you character so you can win against casher. But pls tell me which non cash player has any chance against zebq or similar player. No one. And it is not the point of this game. Cashers have higher stats and it is completely ok.

But Zorich mentioned one more category which he called "Fair Play Mentality". That is something that you can not see in this game or is very rare. One player told me that system make them attack players in amethyst. No it is not system. It is your decision to do it. Also it is your decision not to be fair player. So be honest.

And one more thing if someone get 190k br in only few days can you call it player? What was he playing? He was only buying. And yes he can be bully if he wants because this game allows him to be.

A really hope that there are more decent fair players here, casher or non cacher.