+20% hp mage too

[senadbasic]

I'm hoping theyre dead well before pet stage ^^

deflection?

[bakuryuuha]

as i wrote above this thread is pointless and insulting to mages, completelly agree with athena (as always...wait not always, u were wrong about crit stat :P) compare same things if you want to get to a reliable result, mages will kill knights, knights will kill archers and archers will kill mages MOST of the times. if a mage builds against archer he will be vunerable against mages and so on. if somebody wants to beat everything, just cash hard and nothing will be able to stand against you. sadly our TOP cashers are knight/archer and we have not seen what a mage can do when cashed like zebq or pipster.

p.s athena heard my name, what statistics?

I think I mentioned statistics on your battles with archers and knights of similar strength and the battle results and their stats vs your for reference.

I never say mages is weak

Neither i say mages nid 20 % hp passive buff

What i am saying HOW DARE ARCHERS AND KNIGHTS DARE TO REQUEST 20 % MDEF !!!!

READ and dun refute for the sake of refuting

Well..if you bothered to read all the posts, the thread poster is requesting for 20% HP on top of all the other passives. So I was saying if mages are to get 20% more hp, then us knights and archers should get another passive such as 20% more mdef to be fair. Why should only mage get an extra passive? Maybe my wall of text was too long for you and you read off pt or misunderstood somewhere along the way...

[QUOTE=senadbasic;869472]

You say it like lunatic is free to cast. How many archers have LD medal + 2 lv 4 clothings and 1 lv 5 clothing? 45 rage doesn't drop from the sky at the start for most archers. Most have to waste a turn using rune and an arrow shot or multishot depending on gear. Next, not all archers crit on the bulk of their lunatic's hits. No crit = no rage regained. If they regained less than 35 rage (30 rage if use arrow shot after that), they can't cast another lunatic after using multishot. Also, how many archers maxed fury talent? You're talking about lv 80 archers who have been playing for quite a bit and probably cashed a bit. Most non-casher archers would be no where near maxing it unless they've been playing for over a yr. Which kind of eliminates the majority of the newer server archers.

first of all im talking about strong mages and archers many in 80 bg and on my server have LD and clothes 4+ most start same as me with brut and aoe and second yea im talking about 80 lvl ppl who played over year game and doesn't need to be heavy casher

im not talking about worthless 70lvl or lower there is astronomical difference between 70lvl and 80lvl

Yep. your server. What about the hundreds of other servers? one server vs hundreds of servers with almost similar pop ulation and you think your server should be the sample base for statistics? How many servers have the bulk of their players at or near max?

An equal BR Archer or Knight should have NO problem clearing troops before awakening. I'm going off end-game analysis here, not the mid-game of L50-L69. I'm talking people who are starting to max talents and are at or approaching L80. Because that's where the game is going to live for the foreseeable future. People camping lower levels that complain about imbalance need to level up. Knights become the best character class in PvP at L80 w/ full Talents. And they're going to get WAY better when Advanced Class Skills come out. Mages are currently hurting the most because what made them unique is lost, and what used to be their strength is now something everyone else can do - often better.

Iris Skills vs. Mage Skills:

• Warm Spring - 85% +300 Heal, 15s CD || Restoration - 75% +300, 15s CD, 35 RAGE
• Rain Dance - 133% +500 Heal, 60s CD || Blessed Light - 135% +400, 60s CD, 60 RAGE
• Tsunami - 145% +156 Damage, 10s CD + Puri Effect || Rain of Fire - 165% Damage, 10s CD 16 RAGE
• Archeron Wave - 280% +350 Damage + Stun, 45s CD || Delphic HT - 295% +350 Damage + Stun, 60s CD, 100 RAGE

Notice the Iris has the same, or better CD on Heals and AoE - and no Rage cost of course. And the Tsunami, when you're the only one up, is a Blood / Amnesia / Chaos remover. Furthermore, 35 Rage for a Resto is prohibitive. It may not seem so to other classes, but it is to a Mage. Know how much Rage we earn back casting a Resto? 0. That's right. 0. Because our Passive Rage Talent is ****, we only get +2 Rage per ENEMY TARGET hit outside of what out Equipment Set gives us. Knights get +10 no matter what. A Knight uses a Heal Rune and he gets +20 Rage!

Rage maintenance for a Mage is NOT like other classes.



Now you just sound like a child. Did you see the earlier list that shows what the passives are? ANY Mage would gladly take another class' passives. It wouldn't even be a tough decision. If I could take any 3 Passives after the generic +15% Attack all Classes get I'd take:

• (Knight) Divine Blessing: +20% PDef, +20% HP, +20% Received Healing
• (Archer) Eyes of the Eagle: +20% Crit Rate, +20% HP (Redundant)
• (Knight) Tenacity: +7% DR, Enemy Crit Rate -5%.

And that doesn't even touch on the Archer's Damage Booster, or Knight's Block Heals. And Mages don't even get a 20% Heal Boost like you'd think... They get 8%. Yeah, 8%. Mage. Passives. Suck.



I'll give you one thing - Mages still have Suntoria. That's the only thing Iris didn't take away from them. Iris took their AoE Delphic Stun. Took their 10s CD AoE. Took their Resto. Took their BL. Took their Puri. Sunto is all we have left that's worthwhile that makes us unique.

As to why a Mage is needed in LL NM... Because unless you have 2 Iris, you can't heal through the final boss. It's been shown that 2 Archers w/ Iris can solo LL NM. The video is on youtube.

Seriously though, what if the Dark Sylph got a Deep Freeze, Incend and also had a 50% Stun rate onto it's Delphic? What would Archer's be saying? I've already seen the complaints about it's doing PAtk Damage w/ a 210% Bloodthirsty @ 60% HP Return. I've seen the complaints about how it can keep scattering. Why not give it DF, Incend and a stunning Delphic to make it just like the Archer, Rage Free? Just like the Iris does to a Mage.



The OP's got a valid point, but as I said earlier, I don't think a Mage should get a 20% HP Boost, if you'd care to actually read that. My suggestions were to make the Heal% Boost something more significant and to add something like a 10% innate Illusion ability. Mages are about damage avoidance, not taking more hits.

I actually care more about your end-game analysis which is pretty unrealistic at this pt of time. For there to be enough players in that range, all of them needs to play for another yr or more and you think the bulk of them won't quit before that happens? Chances are some will quit, others will trade their account to someone else to continue their work (which we probably won't know unless you know them in RL or some other means), some will probably go on long holidays and come back to find they're 6 - 8mths behind on their progress, etc.

An equal br archer/knight can clear troops b4 awakening yes. But mages also are doing the same. With thunderer in your list of skills, you're telling me you can't zap them with big dmg as well before awakening? If a mage has the same lv clothing as an archer that is easily possible to cast it along with aoes and any heals in the time it takes the same archer or knight to cast all that aoe or skill combos. Against an archer, they might probably take slightly lesser dmg than a knight, but they're not exactly tanks unless they're heavy cashers.

If a mage had gotten gaia, when an archer awakens into an iris, is that 133% + 500 heal able to bring them from 0 hp back to full health? Plus Iris being an matk sylph, its not going to be able to do much dmg to mages if they awaken into a matk sylph like gaia or apollo. Archers/knights who get hades are going to get pwned by other archers/knights with gaia in bg or cw.

Also archers having +20% hp is not redundant. We don't get any def bonus from passive. Without that extra hp, we'd be dead from all the aoes before we get enough rage to spam armor piercers or bloodthirsty strikes to kill a mage in back or front rows. Against knights even with the 20% hp bonus its rarely enough since they get 20% pdef bonus and on top of that, receive 15% dmg less from our attacks, add in talents, that's another 15% and throw in goddess blessing, we're doing almost half dmg on knights. Add in block and other things us archers are just not up for fighting knights so that 20% hp is meant to be our balance against mages for us to last long enough to do burst dmg to kill off the mage.

Since you mentioned about block heals, like I said for a knight to be in that range of stats for lots of blocks, a mage will have equally high stats to do enough dmg to kill off a knight even with that amount of blocks. especially if you get gaia and use its delphic. Also in end-game, there will be a new stat called penetration which ignores defenses. So if the mage knows how to play, they will be able to kill a knight easily. Them using iris means they're not going to be able to kill a mage during sylph mode which gives the mages a huge advantage since the mdef boost from a matk sylph is very small, your matk + a matk sylph will just increase your sylph's delphic dmg potential to one hit most archers and knights unless they cashed heavily on battle guardians.

As for hades having archer skills, I wouldn't even care about that. Against other archers and knights I'd still use gaia to kill them off and if a mage gets a hades with archer like skills, they'd at best be on par with the dmg but still lack the crit potential us archers have cause of our passive increasing crit rate. Knights using them will still be equally disadvantaged against other knights since they're pitting patk against pdef which in archer vs knight fights has been shown that patk will lose out unless the knight sc rewed up on their build or is a total noob.

Overall I'd still say your end game analysis is pretty flawed since there isn't an actual statistical pop ulation here to support your analysis.

[senadbasic]

well I don't care about newer servers u cant just start game and hope to have everything im 163 server so all those below and some above got most things maxed

so yea many have maxed and I only pay for vip for past 6 months so u can imagine what many things got ppl maxed who hardcore cashed