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Why so Injustice with Knights in AOE damage. no Moaning plz, its the truth see !!!!

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  • #31
    Delphic Hell Thunder - [ All ] - 270% +350 .QTE BOOST 25% making it 337 %
    Are you kidding me ? No good mage uses 100% rage on that *** skill.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Ivopinto View Post
      Delphic Hell Thunder - [ All ] - 270% +350 .QTE BOOST 25% making it 337 %
      Are you kidding me ? No good mage uses 100% rage on that *** skill.
      nope I don't use it huge rage needed better to bombard with RoF and meteor and have rage for heals(bl can counter any aoe nicely)

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      • #33
        In most games i have played
        Mage/Healer/Support/Nuker - generally supports team-mates in achieving victory using heals and few high damage nukes, which tears out enemy into small bit but have high CD and mana/rage/soul cost. {Life Saver ]

        Knight/Tanker - Iron wall -they defend the team by taking damage, High hp, High Defense and damage reduction buffs additionally high reflections of damage, generally with 1 lethal attack. {Strongest Shield ]

        Carry/Agile/Assassins/Rouge/Archers- High damage per second, generally ranged based or stealth based. Low Hp/Def.

        This may not be true for all games, additionally its my personal opinion but it has served me quite well in pre-determining the class I want to play.
        Last edited by Hot Shot; 03-23-2014, 08:21 AM.
        Sarcasm Intended

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        • #34
          Originally posted by mageheal50 View Post
          i think qte is +25% not *1.25. Tried a few tests

          anyway, archers beat knights with gaia. They can easily kill troops which allow them to make good use of gaia. I dunno what knights can beat.
          You are correct. I've done number breakdowns of this with big hitters like Delphic Hell Thunder and the increase is 25% to the base %, not the overall Damage. So +25% from QTE on a 270% is 295%, not 270% * 1.25.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Ivopinto View Post
            Delphic Hell Thunder - [ All ] - 270% +350 .QTE BOOST 25% making it 337 %
            Are you kidding me ? No good mage uses 100% rage on that *** skill.
            I do, 1st turn no less .

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            • #36
              knights have a low magic defense so mages can kill us , about the damage my knight has 19k attack (level 63 ) and it's pritty high almost like archers have but archers have the BEST critical !! so it's complicated

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              • #37
                However, as to an earlier poster's statement, you have to look at the full context.

                Knights have by FAR the best two single-target Delphics. They've got the only 400%+ (430% w/ QTE) and a 365%. And the best Illusion can do on these, because of the multiple hits from the effect, is a 1/5th and 1/3rd damage reduction respectively, unlike Thunderer, which when affected by Illusion, is completely avoided. Knights get both a 20% PDef AND a 20% HP boost, as well as a 20% Received Healing Boost, +7% DR and 5% Crit Reduction from their passives, as well as the best rage-regen passive.

                Most high end players realize that Knights are a very good class, but you really need to be L76+ to have all the skills you need to make the characters well rounded. As someone who plays both a Mage and a Knight, I find the Knight much more well rounded a class, and despite what the super damage "always use a Gaia" players are saying, I find the use of an Iris by far the best Pet for a Knight. Vs either Archer or Mage, you just sit back and self-heal via Blocks. You use Chaos (Targets player), Ultimate (targets lower hp % - which is the player after chaos rune), Holy Seal (just to target player), Ultimate, Bubble, transform & Tsunami to clear the enemy troops & puri any blood rune you may have, then Rain Dance, Delphic, Warm Spring - come out and Delphic (if the enemy is still alive).

                They're longer combats, but being able to heal upwards of 250k HP between Block-Heals and Iris Heals means you're just biding your time.

                And when Advanced Class Skills come out Knights are going to rule the roost, so people need to calm down a bit . Esoteric Bladestorm. Best Skill in the game at the high end. It's a full AoE @ 175% w/ QTE, AND gives a 3-round 10% Stat Debuff. The amount of BR that removes is ridiculous. Knights also get Fatal Blow, a 30s CD, 60 Rage Attack that does 220% + 1450 & Bleeds 5 Rounds @ 25% per round. That's a total of 370% Damage for 60 Rage.

                Oh, and you get to turn your Shadow Thrasher, you know, the 195% Attack w/ a 1s CD, into a slowing attack as well. 100% of 3-rounds of Slow. So Knights will be better at slowing in PvE than Archers, since their DF has a CD that lets the effect expire briefly. Knights won't. In Necro Knights are going to dominate, and Mages will be the struggling class.

                In Single-Target PvE you'll lead with Shadow Thrasher to Slow, Slasher & Brutality (+45 Rage Gain) follow. Then Fatal Blow, which is only a net-loss of 40 Rage, so you're at at least 25 Rage at this point. Slasher to get to 50+ Rage. Shadow Thrasher + Awaken + Rune (Net gain of 5 Rage), Do Pet Stuff. Dead Baddie that likely never came out of Slow.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by gioxxxx View Post
                  knights have a low magic defense so mages can kill us , about the damage my knight has 19k attack (level 63 ) and it's pritty high almost like archers have but archers have the BEST critical !! so it's complicated
                  Knight at L63 is gimped. Assuming you're camping, Knight is the worst class to have chosen to do so with.

                  Knight's NEED a lot of skill points to Max all their passives and have two Max Delphics. If you don't have at least all your passives at max, 1 Max Delpihc and Max WW, you're not even CLOSE to the potential of your character. Knights also have some of the better talents. Iron Wall, Puncture, Persistence and Tyranny are all truly awesome talents. When you get lucky and L10 Tyranny triggers, your big delphic goes from 430% Damage to being effectively 520%, because Tyranny's boost is AFTER damage is calculated, not on the base Damage %. That's a bigger hit than all Pet Delphics but the Gaia w/ a significant damage % boost from having been hit.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by gioxxxx View Post
                    knights have a low magic defense so mages can kill us , about the damage my knight has 19k attack (level 63 ) and it's pritty high almost like archers have but archers have the BEST critical !! so it's complicated
                    Also, Knights get PDef, which affects 2/3 of the classes. Mage's get MDef only affecting 1/3, and then have no HP Boost.

                    Knights have both 20% PDef and 20% HP Boosts means they're buffed vs. all classes in some way, moreso vs. Archers and Knights. Archers at least get the HP Boost. I'd personally rather have the HP Boost than the MDef boost on a Mage anyday. Mage MDef is already good enough, and they're so vulnerable to Archer Fast Damage and Knight's Delphics.

                    Again, playing both Knight and Mage - both L80 w/ Max Holy Seal - the Knight (even at 12k BR less) is more formidable in BG than the Mage.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Zorich View Post
                      You are correct. I've done number breakdowns of this with big hitters like Delphic Hell Thunder and the increase is 25% to the base %, not the overall Damage. So +25% from QTE on a 270% is 295%, not 270% * 1.25.
                      It has to be like that. Percentages always add up and not multiply.
                      Why? Otherwise, the order of which you put in the extra bonus matters.
                      Officially retired from Wartune and Forums.
                      [No longer logging in]

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Zorich View Post
                        Also, Knights get PDef, which affects 2/3 of the classes. Mage's get MDef only affecting 1/3, and then have no HP Boost.

                        Knights have both 20% PDef and 20% HP Boosts means they're buffed vs. all classes in some way, moreso vs. Archers and Knights. Archers at least get the HP Boost. I'd personally rather have the HP Boost than the MDef boost on a Mage anyday. Mage MDef is already good enough, and they're so vulnerable to Archer Fast Damage and Knight's Delphics.


                        Again, playing both Knight and Mage - both L80 w/ Max Holy Seal - the Knight (even at 12k BR less) is more formidable in BG than the Mage.
                        about mdef/pdef : are you talk when there no pet/sylph sistem?
                        ill add mattack then , isnt both other class also have low mdef to deal with it?
                        -West Coast S115

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Ole.Joe View Post
                          about mdef/pdef : are you talk when there no pet/sylph sistem?
                          ill add mattack then , isnt both other class also have low mdef to deal with it?
                          You are complaining about sylphs now, wow.

                          Wondering how'd you complain if you were a mage, dealing with no hp boost/pdef/mega rage or crit rate
                          *Cheers*
                          Spamming the forums with many threads will not make you wise.

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                          • #43
                            You sir are dumb.

                            Knights aren't meant to be the huge damage dealers, but you can if you know how to build your char.

                            Knights are meant to tank, defend the team, and do some damage.

                            If you want more AOE damage, how about you give up your tanking and hp for it. GG?

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by CondorHero View Post
                              It has to be like that. Percentages always add up and not multiply.
                              Why? Otherwise, the order of which you put in the extra bonus matters.
                              That's not true at all. Multiplicativity is commutative. As long as all the components of the equation are the same, the order is irrelevant. Meaning as long as all the buffs are applied before the first attack, the first attack will have the same % buff regardless of the order in which the buffs are applied.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by White.pt View Post
                                That's not true at all. Multiplicativity is commutative. As long as all the components of the equation are the same, the order is irrelevant. Meaning as long as all the buffs are applied before the first attack, the first attack will have the same % buff regardless of the order in which the buffs are applied.
                                True if no additions are counted. False, otherwise.

                                Let's say base is 100%. Let's say your current attack is 1000.
                                Hypothetical example:
                                Some level of wings give 10% bonus. Some gems and astrals give +2500 attack.
                                Suppose you put wings first and then you put on gems/astrals, you get 1.1*1000 + 2500 = 3600 attack.
                                Suppose you put on your astrals first, then wings, you get (1000 + 2500)*1.1 = 3850 attack

                                I believe the way Wartune works is: They put all the additive bonus stats together, then they apply the multiplicative bonus (and the various multiplicative bonuses are added up, percentage-wise).
                                That way, the order is irrelevant, which should rightfully be so.
                                Last edited by CondorHero; 03-23-2014, 09:38 PM.
                                Officially retired from Wartune and Forums.
                                [No longer logging in]

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