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The definition of "nerf"

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  • Fherlayt
    started a topic The definition of "nerf"

    The definition of "nerf"

    Hi guys, I work as a game designer, and would like to explain what is a "nerf", and why it is something a sane game developer would never do.
    Nerf is when a game developer reduces reward or other benefits of something in the game, or makes things more difficult to reach as before.

    Examples of nerf:
    - sc/whip/gem events no longer give event pieces.
    - gem event wont give reward for lvl 4 gem, wing event wont give reward for lvl 2 wing.
    - opening inventory slots cost 20 times more as before.
    - a blue hades cost 480 event pieces while a blue apollo cost 220 before that.
    - reducing rune slots from 3 to 2.
    etc. etc.

    The main problems with nerfs:
    1.) Makes sure players who started later lose the last hope to catch up with early birds.
    2.) Makes all players extremely unhappy.

    As a result, it reduces the company's income by a massive amount (although they think it does the other way).

    Nerfs are bad. They are a sure way to get rid of your customers.

  • Billy_McF
    replied
    Originally posted by CondorHero View Post
    (i) The norm prior to December 2013 was that sc/whip/events were LIMITED and gave minimal event items. In recent times, only Dec 2013/Jan 2014, those events are unlimited and gave event items. So, not a nerf. Just reverting to norm.
    This is exactly right.

    The Event items were BONUS items substituted for some of the original rewards. Upon reverting to the ORIGINAL rewards everybody claims NERF, even though technically it's not a nerf.

    Example is the added 100% bonus to exp that we get from time to time. Exp is standard, then we get a bonus 100% for a time. When this reverts to normal there is no outcry from people claiming they have NERFED the exp gains.

    Leave a comment:


  • CondorHero
    replied
    Guardian runes were useless, but not useless now.
    Rage runes were the MOST useful in the old system, and it sucks that it was so expensive until recently.
    Healing runes were useless and is useful for PvP now.
    Brutality runes were useless, and is useful now.

    There was no mire, chaos, amnesia runes in the old system. Chaos and Amnesia are only useful for PvP, though.
    Mire is great for PvE/Necropolis.

    Then you also get Sylph system, and get free Gaia. Prior to Gaia, you need about 150k BR to beat level 15 of Necro. Now you need only 109k BR. So I guess in some aspect, you get a boost.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fherlayt
    replied
    Originally posted by CondorHero View Post
    (i) The norm prior to December 2013 was that sc/whip/events were LIMITED and gave minimal event items. In recent times, only Dec 2013/Jan 2014, those events are unlimited and gave event items. So, not a nerf. Just reverting to norm.
    Currently, they give no event items at all. Earlier, at least they gave some with limited event. And *NOT* minimal. I help you refresh you memory:
    http://forum.r2games.com/showthread....ght=Love+Mount
    36 event pieces is far from "minimal". You get about the same amount with SC event. So now, they give 0, then they gave like 70. BIGTIME NERF.

    Originally posted by CondorHero View Post
    (ii) Not a nerf. The passing of time makes a cash item cheaper.
    Nope, the first time they sold Apollo was much cheaper than Hades, as Arlad pointed out as well.

    Originally posted by CondorHero View Post
    (iii) Not a nerf. Just different. Previous runes were meant for previous patches and became obsolete as players become more powerful. Healing runes used to heal 2000 HP at level 5, and Guardian room blocked 2000 (?) damage at level 5. Hardly useful.
    Guardian runes were and are useless, that is true. But the old runes weren't all obsolete. Everyone had access to rage runes, and Necropolis was easier with them for many people. Right now, people have to spent a ridiculous amount of time to get a rage rune of equal effect which they had earlier in large numbers for free. THAT is a nerf. And rune slots reduced to 2, to reduce flexibility and tactic possibilities (so I never use my purge or heal rune) is just a really senseless nerf.

    Leave a comment:


  • CondorHero
    replied
    Originally posted by secretfox View Post
    I think he was just saying,"Why is Hades sylph much more expensive than Apollo sylph?" And like you stated here, 280 vs 480 at the start. The difference is 200. That, to me is a big difference.
    Because they wanted to make more money?

    Leave a comment:


  • secretfox
    replied
    Originally posted by CondorHero View Post
    Blue Apollo was 280 cloud city chests. I think this time round, it is 180 event pieces while Hades is 480 (so passing of time makes it cheaper).
    As to why they priced Hades at 480 vs 280, it is the last ever Sylph (unless the Chinese wartune introduced more), so it is their chance to make more $.

    Perhaps a nerf, but I wouldn't consider it..
    I think he was just saying,"Why is Hades sylph much more expensive than Apollo sylph?" And like you stated here, 280 vs 480 at the start. The difference is 200. That, to me is a big difference.
    Last edited by secretfox; 04-07-2014, 02:56 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CondorHero
    replied
    Originally posted by ArnaudBo View Post
    the global idea was : "they give less for higher price"


    trolling never helped
    Your intelligence isn't that high.

    Leave a comment:


  • ArnaudBo
    replied
    the global idea was : "they give less for higher price"

    Originally posted by CondorHero View Post
    I understand you don't like contrary views. But I state facts.
    trolling never helped
    Last edited by ArnaudBo; 04-07-2014, 02:37 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CondorHero
    replied
    Originally posted by Arlad View Post
    I believe he was talking about Apollo was cheaper than Hades(220 tokens vs 480 tokens) on their first introduction events.
    Blue Apollo was 280 cloud city chests. I think this time round, it is 180 event pieces while Hades is 480 (so passing of time makes it cheaper).
    As to why they priced Hades at 480 vs 280, it is the last ever Sylph (unless the Chinese wartune introduced more), so it is their chance to make more $.

    Perhaps a nerf, but I wouldn't consider it..

    Leave a comment:


  • Arlad
    replied
    Originally posted by CondorHero View Post
    (ii) Not a nerf. The passing of time makes a cash item cheaper.
    I believe he was talking about Apollo was cheaper than Hades(220 tokens vs 480 tokens) on their first introduction events.

    Leave a comment:


  • CondorHero
    replied
    Originally posted by Fherlayt View Post
    Hi guys, I work as a game designer, and would like to explain what is a "nerf", and why it is something a sane game developer would never do.
    Nerf is when a game developer reduces reward or other benefits of something in the game, or makes things more difficult to reach as before.

    Examples of nerf:
    - sc/whip/gem events no longer give event pieces. - (i)
    - gem event wont give reward for lvl 4 gem, wing event wont give reward for lvl 2 wing.
    - opening inventory slots cost 20 times more as before.
    - a blue hades cost 480 event pieces while a blue apollo cost 220 before that. -- (ii)
    - reducing rune slots from 3 to 2. - (iii)
    etc. etc.

    The main problems with nerfs:
    1.) Makes sure players who started later lose the last hope to catch up with early birds.
    2.) Makes all players extremely unhappy.

    As a result, it reduces the company's income by a massive amount (although they think it does the other way).

    Nerfs are bad. They are a sure way to get rid of your customers.
    (i) The norm prior to December 2013 was that sc/whip/events were LIMITED and gave minimal event items. In recent times, only Dec 2013/Jan 2014, those events are unlimited and gave event items. So, not a nerf. Just reverting to norm.
    (ii) Not a nerf. The passing of time makes a cash item cheaper.
    (iii) Not a nerf. Just different. Previous runes were meant for previous patches and became obsolete as players become more powerful. Healing runes used to heal 2000 HP at level 5, and Guardian room blocked 2000 (?) damage at level 5. Hardly useful.

    I understand you don't like contrary views. But I state facts.

    Leave a comment:


  • ArnaudBo
    replied
    so sadly true
    sc/whip was our hope. we saved them (a real pain in the inventory) for having great rewards.
    i still save them but wondering if r2games will create a worthy event anymore

    the current event is another proof. i bought some event chest sometimes when i was close to the number needed to get the mount.
    for the current one, i had 40 / 220... no point. and i don't wanna buy 200 without being sure of winning the mount (who is still only a +20 ...)

    taking back some advantage a consumer had is trying to lose him

    Leave a comment:

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