Exp required for talents

[Pickapath]

Yes Its abit like saying...from today onwards you cant use rocket fuel in your race cars till you win 20 races...but all those that were using it before the change can keep using it...happy racing!! How long you think it going to take to win 20 races against people who allowed to use the rocket fuel while you cant, and how many titles you think youll win while those others take them all plus the benefits to boot

[FalxUK]

Funny/sad thing
I am at lvl 66 and, thanks to the exp change, I am stuck with my HS level at 23.
The ingame BR guide says, my HS level is too and I should improve it...

[Kingryan]

Im already level 64 and my HS still 15, i cant up anymore,everyone from old server using stun and stun ,although my BR now is 100k
please give us some suggestion and explain about this

You need to use some tactics. Me, I can still win lots of battles in which I am stunned for 3 turns.. Try to think outside the box. Be creative when you battle. Try to use combinations of possibilities.

This is one of the reasons I am still happy at playing this game - "it is alright for me to make mistakes.. just learn from it, and go on.."

[Seraph09]

I am still waiting to see if they'll actually fix this or not...But what with the BG issue going on... I doubt their attention is anywhere near this issue...You need Honor to get new PvP Rank.I think highest Rank gives you something near 30~35% damage reduction (no idea... I can't translate numbers and how they calculate in this game)But there's also the other stat boosts and +15 starting rage

Yea i believe i did point out tht you get honor in guild wars you along with other rewards so i see no point in BG or arena if they wont fix them, might aswell get most out of being stuck the same lvl without being able to raise my HS up, in other words i wont lvl up as fast as they want me to

[daunapu]

dragon invasion is the best thing in wartune since long time, 2 days there give more br than you would get in 1-2 weeks.

But yea, keep camping to raise your hs, its helpful in so many places

[FalxUK]

dragon invasion is the best thing in wartune since long time, 2 days there give more br than you would get in 1-2 weeks.

But yea, keep camping to raise your hs, its helpful in so many places

yeah! Much better to rush to lvl80 even with low BR so that in Arena u'll get smashed and wont make any insignias to improve your gear

[daunapu]

yeah! Much better to rush to lvl80 even with low BR so that in Arena u'll get smashed and wont make any insignias to improve your gear

you dont see where the game is heading dont you? ALL the old stuff is obsolete and cost of crafting etc is lowered to the ground.

DI gives around 30-50 dragon essences and mount hoofs PER day, depending on luck and what you can clear ofc. You need 40-50 hoofs for 1st refines of mounts, thats like 1 +10mount every 2 days. Same as dragon soul, 1 lvl per 2 days, 3 or more later.

So yeah, i would go there even if i had to be naked with 0 talent lvls

[Centaur0001]

You need to use some tactics. Me, I can still win lots of battles in which I am stunned for 3 turns.. Try to think outside the box. Be creative when you battle. Try to use combinations of possibilities."

Normally, I'm with you all the way on this. We're here for the fun of a challenge. But, how does one develop tactics when the devs keep shifting the game from under our feet? Not that I was even a level camper for much more than a couple of weeks, as it used to actually take some time to level and do it right, but I developed the understanding I need to do that for a time. I was thinking outside my usual box, and developing a strategy. When the rules can be so vastly different and so much more unfair due to the whim of devs, or based more on short-term desire to trigger more spending at the long-term cost of all players and their enjoyment and their future spend, the time and thought and insights needed to develop tactics simply go out the window. Why bother? It's no longer a situation where "challenge" applies...when you start to get it right, the rules change, the game physics alter, unless you've spent you're not supposed to ever win or have a fair chance...that's the message here...even K2 Support is agreeing this situation is unfair and say they're telling the devs so. How is the challenge of a rigged game you're supposed to lose worthy of being met?

Normally, I'm with you. I LIKE a challenge. But, at a point when the spenders removed the challenge for themselves of leveling super-fast (and maxing out soul crystals and armor and so much else) by their gross over-spending, rather than make the game MORE challenging for them by making it cost more EXP per level, the devs penalized everyone else, took the wrong road out and made most players an easy plunder as a big, wet kiss for the spenders. They get a new class leveling system at higher level, but get penalized players now forced to level faster before they're ready, even according to Kabam's own guides of the needs at each level. This latest change for mature servers destroyed much of the under-pinnings of game fairness that lets non-spenders and lesser-spenders be part of game balance that allows this to be a game everyone can enjoy and compete in.

I got yet another ticket response today telling me K2 is just a distributor for 7Road. K2 has no control over this. The K2 support staff are saying in writing they, too, are against the changes. It's not a challenge. It's an unfair situation and K2 support staff agree, in writing. It's that simple. You can't take a challenge and develop a strategy when the ones who own the game and make the rules will not keep those rules any time it doesn't suit them, even if they are crucifying fair game play with their change. It's like playing a card game without jokers, and suddenly the opponent gets to use 12 jokers and you get none...you're made aware of the rule change, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. It's not about developing new aspects to the game, which may have great potential. It's about us entering a long-term struggle, and what essentially happens here is someone gets to tamper with the game physics to suit their whim. You're succeeding without a spend as high as someone else? Well, let's just cut off your arms until you decide to spend at that level, or just leave you without arms. Or give the spenders those 12 jokers in the deck. Or both. But, most of us don't get them, and never will. That's the current message.

We didn't add levels, either. 80 is still the limit, rather than 90 or 100. The idea is to narrow the gap spenders artificially create when they overspend, so they have more easy plunder targets. As if that helps anyone but the over-spenders.

Or, as said correctly (with sarcasm) in this thread:

yeah! Much better to rush to lvl80 even with low BR so that in Arena u'll get smashed and wont make any insignias to improve your gear

Identify a real challenge here. One that won't be undercut as soon as we start to meet it. One that's worthy. Then, sure, you'll certainly have a point. Until then, the reality of the situation makes it a struggle to see why we would keep playing a game that's rigged. The gamerunners are cheating here for the spenders, in plain view. And, it'll happen again when they feel like it.

The irony...the spenders say they are spending to meet greater challenges, would like to have a tougher challenge. Well, they've just been handed the whole game without hope of seeing stronger opposition now, since it will never develop from a mass of discouraged players who have had the game pulled out from under them. If we succeed later in spite of even these shackles, yet another unfair change will happen...if they're willing to do it once, certainly they'll do it again. With changes like this, the players from whom future challenges might come are being sent a message not to bother. So, it's Game Over for the spenders, literally! On my server, even the spenders see this, and they're vocal about disliking it, too! K2 sees it. We see it. Why can't 7Road see it and reverse it?...because it's what they think they want. It's up to us to tell them otherwise!!

I'd rather this were fixed so we can have a fun game to play again. I really would.

[Monkeyshine323]

Look when a player, a non cash player, is forced to level up due to the changes that have been made, IE not being able to upgrade HS, it makes it uncompetitive, meaning that when in BG, Arena etc. you get stunned into submission. Those that had HS to a higher level before the change are given an unfair advantage verses those who where working on it prior to the change. All that being said what and where is this game going to? A pay only type of game? I started playing it because it was free and it used to be fun and I enjoyed, and still do to a lesser extant, playing a game that was not a cash heavy game. I have a VIP only account and I think it is enough to play the game within reason. There are some players on my server that have spent a small fortune, not that there is anything wrong with that, to be in the top percentile of the game, again nothing wrong with that, but for the rest of us who play this game on a not so regular basis these changes have made it less enjoyable to play. I agree with the player who made the post above me, at what point do the game developers decide to change the rules and say lets just have a free for all, no limits to heavy cash players and tons of limits to VIP and noncasher players? And hi Centaur!

[Centaur0001]

Monkeyshine...since I'm pretty sure I know you...you ARE a regular player. Just not a 20-hour-a-day super-spender. You're like most on this game who have been willing to spend a bit for entertainment, and who play most days. As a group, players like this DO spend a lot, and it's certainly a nice part of Kabam & 7Road's take on this game.

I'm not against spending either, nor against spenders. There's a place for them, and we'd be lying to say we want none in any of our guilds. If that's part of a play style, that's terrific, too. There should be a place for ALL here, and that's the biggest concern with an issue like this one...if you don't spend, you're now of no apparent value to the devs. But, for spend...that's not a problem by itself, so long as we all get to play.

Where I start drawing lines is people getting abusive, and the stuff we've seen on our server crosses that line a lot these days. More because the spenders know the advantage they'll have spending $150 for a game wedding, the advantage they've made with major spend that had some max out soul crystals only a few weeks into their play. The game already gives those players added advantages with Hot Events that let you convert those into whips, for example, rather than making you sit with them after spending your way to maxing your soul engraving because you could spend that much. Well, to a point, I roll with this because it's been there from the start. The game has to make some money somewhere, even if the advantage to those players is all about their spend, not about effort or talent. They think that's fun. Let them. Though buying toon strength then using that to bully is really unnecessary, even though we are seeing so much of it now.

Actually, the rules make it hard to cheat. You CAN have multiple accounts within the rules and spend all you want on each and all. If you want to play 210 toons and spend a fortune on each for your own super-guild, it's within the rules. Kind of pointless, but legal...and we actually have people on our server talking about nonsense like this. But, illegal cheats involve things like bots artificially doing things that make you stronger, game hacks, sharing toons with other players to play more hours than you could realistically play yourself, and many of your concerns probably are more to do with how the moneyed elite have even bragged about such things lately, and nothing is being done to stop it...but that's a different issue.

But, this change is about trying to FORCE players to spend more. The gamerunners are making a change so unfair even Kabam is saying so in tickets to us. They're trying to see if they can take advantage of addictive behavior. They want to see if they can push this to a point that some people are obsessed and, therefore, sick over this game. Then, they want to ratchet up the force they use to make them spend more and more and more. In its way, it's as cynical and immoral as pushing drugs.

I'm here for a game. Not a fix.

When I'm forced to get my fix from a pusher here, I'm outta here.

This game used to feel like everyone was welcome here. Even the kids. It had a fun enough atmosphere I even brought someone over from another game. When the game itself seems to enjoy pulling the rug out from under us and using sad tricks to hit the weak-willed players with deep pockets, it's time to re-examine what we're feeding.

This change to EXP per level and how it impacts Holy Seal is a simple one. It's necessary to restore what we previously had for game balance on mature servers with players between levels 60 & 80. If they can't restore this, there's something wrong.

And, I'll also say, in the long run, overall revenues will go down as the word gets out about this, if it's not fixed. It might get you a short-term boost, but when you drive away so many players as this kind of change must, you throw out the free advertising of word-of-mouth. Just like Evony did, and killed their game just when they had been seeing great growth. It's not new, but greedy devs think they've bought their golden goose when, in fact, they've just helped poison it.

[Barraind]

yeah! Much better to rush to lvl80 even with low BR so that in Arena u'll get smashed and wont make any insignias to improve your gear

As someone who came back to the game recently, playing on a server with a few friends who rushed me to 70, are making me camp 70 gear at 70-74, and then rush 80 for endgame content (talents are what I can get while grinding gear), leveling is far more worth it. In the time I could have spent sitting in the 50's and 60's grinding out talents and honor, and not just getting legendary 50 gear as I leveled, I'd be at 2 level 60 pieces and ~15 talent levels. I'm already at that many level 70 pieces and close to a third, and thats before Insig spending (my honor is just waiting for another week or two).

Yeah, I'm pretty much the worst person at any given level at BG's because I'm behind anyone who was there before me with no chance of catching up. But the thing is, with the exp change, I'm ALWAYS going to be behind anyone who was at whatever level first, until I get to 80, when I can actually do some catching up. With all the new content being aimed at 80 (and its absurdly good rewards, to the tune of "Oh, I just got 8 mil gold and 50 of these things you can only get from here, also dragon souls"), I'd much rather get to the point where I can do that and get an easier catchup method than try and catchup to people whom its impossible to catch (if you were camping talent points before the last patch, congrats, you'll always beat me).


I had a Mage on Kongregate, from a year and a half or so ago. It took me 3 weeks from creation on my current character to pass the BR she had while sitting on full 55 gear for 8 months. The game just wants to keep pushing people in that direction.

[Monkeyshine323]

Leveling as fast as one wants is one thing, but being forced to level is another. I know of countless lvl 60's with br's in the high 90's to low 100's and I would have been one of them if it had not been for this latest change. I watched my toon lvl before I could hit the upgrade button for HS, I was on the screen for talents know I was 2k away from leveling up poised to hit the button and when I had the proper amount of EXP to upgrade HS it leveled me up before I had the chance to make that decision, so how is that fair? it happened to countless others on my server, as I said it is one thing to encourage a player to level but it is entirely different to force a player to level up as in my case and all the others who were sitting in the same situation. So yeah that is giving an unfair advantage to those who where already at that point in their game, and it also penalized a ton of players who weren't.

[daunapu]

being able to hold levels was a loophole, never meant to be, consider it fixed now.

[Centaur0001]

Barraind, as you said, you had friends. You also had game experience.

What of those who don't even have that much, coming in to this game?

What about having options?

Even for those who spend, you're also making a great case their spend to this point was nearly pointless. There's a player who left the game some months ago I'm now plundering, and he was coming out and saying his spend was over $5000.00 some months. I should never have been able to catch him, but I have. How much in tomorrow's dollars is any spend today worth?

On servers that have also already established a power-class of player, no matter how great you make level 80 sound, level 80 becomes just another plateau at which we're forced to be behind them. And moreso because of the super-rewards you get for being a super-spender.

Why did this have to be a new set of advancements instead of extending the max level to 90, 100, or beyond? Most level 80 players who have been there for some time have the EXP built up to just level on the regular system. Why hand them a new one, other than just to make all new level 71+ players easy plunders?

Part of the logic of this game has to be about COMPETING REASONABLY AT YOUR LEVEL, doesn't it? We've just taken away the brakes that force you to compete against those who will forever have an advantage (fair or not) because of their spend. So, if we don't get there AND beat their level of spend now, we can't compete in this game. You're telling me it's worth it? You're admitting we have no shot at competing. You're confirming my statement above that it's rigged. So, um, why do I want to play a game rigged so I can't even hope to win?

I want to EARN my place, not buy it. When do the rules ever stabilize so I can play and feel like I've accomplished something that isn't about to be taken away?

BR is just a number. And, yes, the game has changed, and I don't think by itself that's horrible. If you passed your old BR in 3 weeks, I can see that. There are new features (sylphs & title bonuses, to name two), some better rewards payouts. I don't have a problem with that, and BR is just a number unless and until you know how to use it. But, the inflation rate on the value of that BR is the problem. You've spotlighted that, too. In another few months, the BR you get by the time you hit level 80 will be something you can surpass in just a few weeks' play, too. What then? The new time and the new toon will be made worthless and obsolete by the next great changes. You'll be further behind than you expected because those changes will yank another rug out from under YOU. And you LIKE a game that does that to you constantly?

[Centaur0001]

being able to hold levels was a loophole, never meant to be, consider it fixed now.

I totally disagree. It was part of how the game was developed, and it was a choice. Some of us made that choice to slow down leveling, and without notice it's taken away from us. Kabam itself has answered this is unfair.

But, even if I did agree with you...that it's a loophole now closed...the focus so much of forcing unnatural spend is not good for the game. The focus on money and away from strategy and smarts and teamwork and guild and honest competition is not good for the game. So, even if I agree, then there are other real problems with the latest patch that are far worse than what's being discussed here. I think the simple and honorable fix is to just put it back as it was, let the rules apply to all and not just to the majority for the benefit of the spenders who have already passed the levels, by virtue of spend not talent, at which they have to worry about such issues anyway.

Again, if this wasn't directly given as a big, wet kiss to the spenders at the cost of the rest of us, why not increase the maximum level and let the level 80's camped there forever suddenly see level 81 (or 100) in the way so many of us spontaneously leveled?

This wasn't about a loophole being closed. This was about a cynical money grab that's so short-sighted it's hurting the game, as evidenced by decreasing attendance and many who have stopped spending altogether until it's changed back. It's wrong. We're here to tell 7Road what we think. So, daunapu, I respectfully disagree with you...but at least I'm not FORCING you to agree with me!