Cannot use Shadow Strike in Warriors Arena?????

[Shadowlisk]

lol yeah but i have a friend who is a mage on the server(btw invest in icicle armor 5% chance is a lie lol) who tests every single skill she gets on me :P this is how i know which ones have higher hit than others.... through rigorous testing and many deaths

lightbeam is another skill that almost never misses me(30% hit rating on the priest that uses it btw) only issue with it is that if the rogue poofs while it is being cast it negates the skill completely but she has 200%+ cast speed so she shoots about as fast as blood beam does

but stealth really didnt need nerfing the only stat bonus you get from it is possibly movement speed(which i hate those skills) as for the 5 second stun you can only use while stealthed.....
i have hit people with that skill and forgiveness triggers the very same second(purges all negative buffs) and they dont even flitch except for the laughable damage caused by the skill

so the only "overpowered" aspect i keep hearing about stealth is draws in arena.... which btw i get glitched after killing/being killed in arena to where i have to wait for a draw or refresh and take a loss whether or not i won the match making that solution you gave troublesome until they fix every other glitch in arena

[JPwayne82444]

I can understand the concerns about nerfing stuff, no one likes it when their build is suddenly weaker because of a nerf. I also understand that in some occasions it is necessary, since the only other option is to buff pretty much everything else to make up for one imbalance (which is a lot more likely to cause more balance issues). The question is is it necessary here? I think they needed to do something at least, since stealth just doesn't work with the arena otherwise. Do I think they need to take it out entirely like they did? No, even before you gave a suggestion for a decent middle ground I thought there must have been some other way to fix the issue. My best idea would have been make it so if you get to many draws in a row, or to many draws in one day to penalize you somehow (Like not letting you enter the arena again for a while or something). This wouldn't solve the issue entirely, but it would at least put a limit on how much one person can force a draw, instead of hunting only for perfect fights or something.

As for some skills having a higher hit rating, I'm not sure if it is that they hit more, or if it is just they are used so much more often. I know when I'm hunting stealthed rogues I use flame explosion, but thats not because I think it is more accurate. It is because it has a big range, and can be spammed without waiting on a CD to end. The other main skill I rely on is in fact thunderstorm, and the fact that it can hit stealthed rogues is one of the main reasons I like the skill. Even with that though it misses often, and if it misses once it is 5 seconds before it attacks again (and it doesn't have an animation when it misses, so no knowing where the rogue is to target them). Beyond this possibility though all I can do is take your word that some skills hit a higher percent of the time, since I'm not built for dodging, and the only other skills I could test with are Balrog's Hell (really small AoE and a mild CD), Meteor Strike (a large CD), Fission (super small range and a long CD), Ready (3 second delay after it is cast, and a long CD), or Firewave (short CD and decent range, but I am awful at aiming line type attacks).

[Shadowlisk]

as much as i agree with that.... stealth has plenty of restrictions placed withing the requirements given already that makes shadow rogues by far the weakest class PvE and PvP wise until lvl 60-70 mortal+(not to mention all the idiots that foolishly boost movement speed skills for the rogue class lol)

the only viable option i can see is the one thats already in place for hellstorm where yes the rogue must take the chance at getting themselves screwed due to attacking that player(especially thunderstorm mages who have a passive range of 600) and if you pay attention some skills have a higher hit rating it seems than others(example being crater smash or flame explosion) possibly a hidden effect but thats not the issue

the issue is the half assed patchwork they did that would end up have people quit because of nerfing.... i know plenty of people that either 1) gave up accounts 2) deleted accounts or 3) just plain quit games when the devs started going on a nerfing spree.... and it always starts with one teensy little nerf such as not being able to use stealth in pvp(game i am talking about here is Guild Wars 1 when they nerfed the elementalist and all went downhill from there)

[JPwayne82444]

I never said anything to anyone at R2, on the forums or in a ticket, is what I mean by "I didn't cry about it at all". I said my thoughts in guild chat and that is it. Like I said I actually stopped bothering with arena because of all the rogues that abuse stealth on my server. It isn't like that is the only one, the other server I play I heard people complaining about it in guild too (I only did arena a few times on that server to check if it was just as bugged).

Anyway I would rather see R2 only make it so people who abuse stealth are screwed over by it, even when I personally think stealth is overpowered (and no getting into arguments about if it is or isn't. This is my opinion, not something I'm trying to use as an argument at all). I couldn't think of a way for them to do that while leaving stealth in previously, but your idea of making it the same as hellstorm, where only shadow strike can be used works. My arguing about that after you initially posted the idea was only because I misremembered the CD on vagabonds swiftness, and if they could use that every time then it would be worthless to even take out slayers cloak. With them only being able to use it once and needing a minimum of 2 shadow strikes all other classes have a chance to catch them on that second one, so it is balanced for everyone else.

[Shadowlisk]

Ok well shadow rogues lose 50% of their pvp effectiveness the point you remove stealth is what nutron is saying....as for not crying you might want to rephrase some text then

I just decided to stop doing arena as a waste of time since rogues destroy the entire concept

as for myself being a shadow rogue in arena i almost never force a draw unless its a noob i am screwing with and lose track of time..... shadow strike is normally my last hit move in pvp since it has exceptional damage compared to other mortal rogue skills

reason i use it for my last hit skill is because if they do somehow manage to survive the hit it gives me a few seconds in stealth to wait for my skill cooldowns(as well as my opponents getting time to heal/cooldown)

so the reason R2 f***** over all shadow rogues not just the idiots who abuse the mechanics of a well coded skill set that requires finesse to use efficiently in PvP(just like combat rogues) is because some other noobs complained as well


so at this point since i have not gotten a formal response from R2 i ask one question...

will they fix this ** skill nerf or just cancel out shadow rogues completely and forcve everyone to migrate to combat to even have a shred of hope in pvp anymore

i am at the point of quitting for the simple fact of once the nerfing starts and is not corrected it never stops and only gets worse

[JPwayne82444]

I didn't cry about it at all, I just decided to stop doing arena as a waste of time since rogues destroy the entire concept. The ones who are crying about it are the rogues who can't be guaranteed a win or a draw now that they have to actually fight. Beyond that all I'm doing is defending the decision the devs made to take stealth out, since I think it is a good one for the concept behind the arena (1 vs 1 or 3 vs 3 fights where the loser loses points and the winner gains them). That said I am also looking for a way that they can compromise and let rogues use stealth without going back to having another event that is broken beyond being worth doing, something which doesn't benefit me even slightly. Also since you didn't seem to read my previous post I actually ended up agreeing with Shadowlisk's suggestion to just make it the same as hellstorm.

Also about mages thunderstorm skill, I have it, and I agree it should be taken out of some places (namely Survival of the Fittest and Tamalan Arena). I don't see how it effects arena matches though, since if they aren't bugged (which does happen to often) they end as soon as one person dies.

[nutron42]

He's not saying that the skill set being nerfed is the problem hes saying that his entire skill tree that he uses is being negated. That's the problem i mean okay rogues have a skill set that makes them go poof so what work around it? Mages have a skill that when they die they shoot lightning out of their buts and can also kill u do you see people saying that skill should be taken out in arena? nope! If you cant handle a player working their skills to try to find a way to pk a much higher lvl player then dont go into arena. Don't cry cry cry about how you are getting draws when a lower lvl player sees that he/she has been matched against someone that 1 shots them and goes into stealth to try to figure out a way to defeat that larger player.

[JPwayne82444]

run away until that goes down? ok let me put it this way i have 100% dodge with lvl 8 HP and normal light blessing.... and for stripping stealth that is impossible just like stripping the dragonspine buff when using the IoB glitch....

i have the highest dodge among ALL rogues in my server(as none of them are "uber"cashers and neither am i)

vagabonds lasts 8 seconds has a 3 minute cooldown unlike angelics which lasts up to 10 seconds with 30 second cooldown

50% hit rating is bare minimum for most the knights/mages/rangers in my server as were are around S22 in age i would guess(i started playing march of this year)

as for running from a knight? all the knights i can face in equal pvp 50/50 win or so.... are eidolons lvl 100+ that should explain their skills.... as for damage reflect that is a permanent passive skill so you wish that i run the whole time in arena just to drag out a draw regardless because they will just use titans guard immediately after angelics to reduce damage recieved and kick angelics again

hellstorm does not strip stealth upon entry.... i used to make it a habit to enter while stealthed at 21:35 right before it closed so i have a little extra time to gather myself

my signature merely states the optimum dodge i can have under perfect conditions.... as my sperion only has a 7% chance of triggering and any knight could remove both vagabonds and HP lvl 8 if they had half a brain... there are too many variables you are not considering ive already pointed out that you have yet to actually consider....

simply put again they made a half assed decision to nerf a rogue which is built to either hide in shadow(stealth) or stun/attack mass enemies(pve build) removing the stealth aspect of rogues kills the character for PvP completely as they have the lowest defense in the game not to mention unlike mages and rangers who have barely more defense is not a ranged class with the exception of combat builds which negate stealth

why nerf a skill meant for pvp in a pvp event when that will just **** people off and cause a loss in income from cashers in the long run(noobs will love em though)

When I said run from them I meant until the immortality goes down, I know the damage reflect is a passive. As for Titans guard that wouldn't give a huge boost unless they were no where near the reduction cap (75% for anyone reading this that doesn't know), and correct me if I'm wrong, but don't shadow rogues have a skill that negates some of that damage reduction, plus sunder? This wasn't meant to be part of the argument anyway, just me trying to figure out why you would stand there hitting an enemy you can't hurt when doing so actively hurts you.

As for your dodge, I wasn't assuming that what you posted in your sig was your constant dodge, but just what you always have that can't be taken away (Base, title, BoL) is 101%. Rangers and priests can't debuff you, and not all mages can either (a decent number choose to take thunderstorm instead, which can't debuff), so I feel fairly confident in keeping the 7% from HP in as well in most cases, meaning 108%. I'll admit I forgot Vagabonds swiftness had a 3 minute CD (I was thinking 1 min 25 seconds, minus 10 seconds per level. Pretty sure that is a rogue skill, just not sure which one), but still if you use it to rush them and shadow strike it ends up being 158% dodge then. Your 50% hit bare minimum is already equal to 0 hits during that, unless vagabonds swiftness and HP are debuffed off you, which I think requires an actual hit to do itself. Without vagabonds swiftness being usable every time you would have to shadow strike to keep the match going though I feel a lot better about your original suggestion of just making slayers cloak not usable inside.

As for "why nerf a skill meant for pvp in a pvp event", that is because it isn't being used as "a skill for pvp in a pvp event". Tons of rogues are using it to avoid fighting altogether inside a PvP event. If you are in a purely PvP event, you shouldn't have skills that let you outright avoid PvP, which is how it is being used in the server I play. That said I don't think draws should be outright impossible, just that if someone wants to go for a draw they should have to work for it. Without constant no-risk stealth to make it impossible to effectively target you (with the only chance of hitting you being to cover a huge area with AoEs) actually getting a draw would be hard, and anyone who can manage it against a stronger player has earned keeping their points.

[Shadowlisk]

yup posted immediately after my first arena match when i went to 1 hit kill a noob and couldnt

[KidSess]

Was this after this week's maintenance?

[Shadowlisk]

run away until that goes down? ok let me put it this way i have 100% dodge with lvl 8 HP and normal light blessing.... and for stripping stealth that is impossible just like stripping the dragonspine buff when using the IoB glitch....

i have the highest dodge among ALL rogues in my server(as none of them are "uber"cashers and neither am i)

vagabonds lasts 8 seconds has a 3 minute cooldown unlike angelics which lasts up to 10 seconds with 30 second cooldown

50% hit rating is bare minimum for most the knights/mages/rangers in my server as were are around S22 in age i would guess(i started playing march of this year)

as for running from a knight? all the knights i can face in equal pvp 50/50 win or so.... are eidolons lvl 100+ that should explain their skills.... as for damage reflect that is a permanent passive skill so you wish that i run the whole time in arena just to drag out a draw regardless because they will just use titans guard immediately after angelics to reduce damage recieved and kick angelics again

hellstorm does not strip stealth upon entry.... i used to make it a habit to enter while stealthed at 21:35 right before it closed so i have a little extra time to gather myself

my signature merely states the optimum dodge i can have under perfect conditions.... as my sperion only has a 7% chance of triggering and any knight could remove both vagabonds and HP lvl 8 if they had half a brain... there are too many variables you are not considering ive already pointed out that you have yet to actually consider....

simply put again they made a half assed decision to nerf a rogue which is built to either hide in shadow(stealth) or stun/attack mass enemies(pve build) removing the stealth aspect of rogues kills the character for PvP completely as they have the lowest defense in the game not to mention unlike mages and rangers who have barely more defense is not a ranged class with the exception of combat builds which negate stealth

why nerf a skill meant for pvp in a pvp event when that will just **** people off and cause a loss in income from cashers in the long run(noobs will love em though)

[JPwayne82444]

simple fix should be the same as what they do/did for hellstorm... rogues can only stealth using shadow strike... this causes the rogue to need to come close and enter striking distance and danger to any class but does not hinder the rogue too much in pvp wise

I could agree to this, so long as any stealth they had when entering is stripped off them. Otherwise same exact problem, except with them having to get in close once a minute. As is unstealthing a decent rogue when you know where they are is hard since they can get over 100% dodge (as you yourself brag about in your signature), so even with +50% hit (which does need some specialized building for it) you still miss more than half the time. Add to that where any decent rogue trying for a draw would use vagabonds swiftness, stun them, then use shadow strike and the only option someone who isn't built specifically to fight rogues has is to spam AoEs on themselves and hope to get lucky.

Also as a side note, if you see a knight has their immortality skill up and they have damage reflect why don't you just stop attacking them and run away until that goes down? That would have to be a lot more effective than suiciding off their damage reflect.

[Shadowlisk]

Actually it is a major problem. That arena is huge, so trying to cover it in AoEs isn't happening. You might get lucky and hit the rogue, but any good rogue will keep as far away from you as possible if they are going for a draw, which happened a lot on my server. When more than half your matches end in a draw because a rogue was to chicken to fight you then yes, it should be disabled.

Does this change weaken rogues a lot though? Yes. I really don't see what else they could do though, because leaving it so some people can effectively force a draw against people that should slaughter them instantly is as unfair to the other 4 classes as not being able to stealth is to rogues.

Does more than weaken rogues.... ruins any chance they have against heavy damage/defense classes or ranged classes at all...
1) Priest see unstealthed rogue drops instant curse.... dodge or not still roots the rogue(they can do this three times and spam with bloodbeam)
2) Mage sees rogue uses meteor or the pushback skill then spams with flame explosion(almost never misses rogues)
3) Knight sees rogue crater smash, stun, drag, angelic blessing, then laugh as the rogue suicides off of them due to damage reflect
4) combat rogue sees shadow rogue lightstream, reversal, decimation, finish the job nuff said
5) ranger sees rogue traps +tidal arrow + any other hit = dead rogue

rogue without stealth is a dead rogue... might as well cancel out shadow side completely and force those of use who learned the finesse to shadow to relearn how to play our class using combat(which sucks compared to shadow in regards to pvp)

Well, it's great that they hear people's opinion, but of course like i said this will definitely anger rogues, a better solution would be for the rogues to show up as black dot on the mini map, even when cloaking, and i have to emphasize MINI MAP , not the big area map. Would be more fair, but I guess they're just taking shortcut, good luck with that.

minimap gives them the exact location of the rogue... no different the telling rogues they cannot stealth... just they can use stun...

simple fix should be the same as what they do/did for hellstorm... rogues can only stealth using shadow strike... this causes the rogue to need to come close and enter striking distance and danger to any class but does not hinder the rogue too much in pvp wise

[Botolminum]

Well, it's great that they hear people's opinion, but of course like i said this will definitely anger rogues, a better solution would be for the rogues to show up as black dot on the mini map, even when cloaking, and i have to emphasize MINI MAP , not the big area map. Would be more fair, but I guess they're just taking shortcut, good luck with that.

[JPwayne82444]

Actually it is a major problem. That arena is huge, so trying to cover it in AoEs isn't happening. You might get lucky and hit the rogue, but any good rogue will keep as far away from you as possible if they are going for a draw, which happened a lot on my server. When more than half your matches end in a draw because a rogue was to chicken to fight you then yes, it should be disabled.

Does this change weaken rogues a lot though? Yes. I really don't see what else they could do though, because leaving it so some people can effectively force a draw against people that should slaughter them instantly is as unfair to the other 4 classes as not being able to stealth is to rogues.