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Couple of Priest questions

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  • Witch_s65
    started a topic Couple of Priest questions

    Couple of Priest questions

    1. Are there any Eidolon pure endurance/blood spec priests out there?
    -not hybrid but pure blood spec, and do you enjoy it? (please give as much info as you feel necessary or message me on these forums)


    2. Are there any Eidolon pure AGI priests out there?
    -is it good or bad? the only thread i found about this was edited with all the info removed. (please give as much info as you feel necessary or message me on these forums)


    3. Do Priests balance well in the Late/END game standards compared to other class's? for PVP and PVE
    -like are you able to fight as good as others in say Sengolia or do Priests get killed alot quicker than anyone else.


    4. Was Blood spec meant to be a tanky damage dealer type of spec?
    -i see evidence of it within the spec, but as i level high the benefits are really insignificant.


    5. Do the Blood spec skills seem weak to anyone else?
    -As in, they seem like they were made for very low level priests and do-not scale to high level priest standards for Eidolon for example.
    -Another example would be "Enhanced Circulation" - the HP regen.. you would basically only go into this skill if you wanted more Magic damage reduction.
    -the blood spec skills seem to give less bonus's than what you would get if you went holy or hybrid.


    6. Are Holy priests at Eidolon Strong in Sengolia?
    -are holy priests able to heal through other players damage? or do they just fight and heals are insignificant at that level?


    I think that's all my questions i have
    Last edited by Witch_s65; 11-21-2013, 02:12 AM.

  • Witch_s65
    replied
    Yeah i remember all the information you told me, but i had alot more people tell me more information that pushed my investigation further.

    With the Higher level Frag, some class's can ignore many of the priest abilities, from curses to blood pool, the rogue for example can counter 100% of the priest abilities just from using frag.. without even mentioning the stealth stun and having to randomly time a death cometh to something you have no idea is coming.

    I never looked at the game like a puzzle.. but with the many bugs that priest seem to have, and the many differences R2 has compared to other versions of Crystal Saga, it kind of did become a puzzle, putting all the information together and then comparing it in a balanced environment.
    Along with the lack of communication from R2 in regards priests, i mean.. 7month old bugs that didn't get fixed with no confirmation or even a "we are looking into it" see what i mean.

    What i have seen from other class's that hit for 4mil-9mil in 2 seconds without cashing at all, compared to a heavily cashed priest who could possibly hit for 2-4mil, and this is with all Holy/Hybrid/Blood spec priests.
    -That's like a Priest max damage + more.. with way more crystal used than someone who has used none..
    -The enjoyment factor relies completely on priests ability to cash money to stand a chance.

    Anyone can say "it depends how you play" but when it is considered by everyone, even yourself in the post im replying to, that the priest requires alot of crystal to be on the same level to be able to win a fight against players running another class and not cashing a single dollar.

    So a free Priest player.. vs a free any other class player... Priest has no chance..

    Everything comes down to balance, and the priest doesn't balance.

    None of this stuff matters anyway, why? because all the new systems that require crystal , or years of game time to utilize the benefits of it.

    I only heard the new rebirth info as a rumour, because there is no FAQ evidence of information on it from R2, like we have nothing to look forward to, just one day it will be added, or a forum mod will drop some info randomly somewhere like 1 week before it happens.

    Leave a comment:


  • TpstT
    replied
    I already sent u a personal message so I won't be saying anything that I've already said not to mention there's few others who already added the extras.
    All that being said you already managed to get hold of most of the aspects of the priest class in the game.

    The things I wanted to add was that first priest is a support class. We're not supposed to out damage other class or out tank them. True that support of the priest isn't really needed later in the game but since your server is still new priests will still be needed for a year or two at least. Even in my merged server there's only a handful of players that can solo Evil Beast nightmare or solo ladder to 75 (maximum floor for ladder will probably increase). You also have to realise that the strength of the character isn't all based on the stat that it has (don't get me wrong the stats contribute a significant amount), however given enough experience, even as a priest you can kill other class with half their stat (this is assuming you can control your priest better than the other player).

    When it comes to endgame when everything is 1-2 hits in pvp everyone stand a change regardless of which class your in. Remember matk isn't everything for a priest; your heal stat also contributes to your damage. With enough crit chance, crit dmg and hit rating its possible for you can send spirit infusion and improved spirit infusion doing a million damage each in total duration of less than 1 second. If you are willing to cash a great deal and put in alot of effort into your character you can most probably do 2-4 million damage (per hit and remember that spirit infusion is 0.5s duration at 100% cast spd so you can do about 4-8million dmg in about 0.5 second - sure its a burst then you have to wait until cool down's ready for doesn't matter too much in pvp), I don't know how much exactly, mine's not that well developed.

    I did say I prefer the holy mortal skills over blood mortals when I was previously talking to you but that's just my personal opinion, and whatever people say death cometh is.... I would even go as far as to call it a priest's version of invincibility (even if its really not ). Blood under no mean is weak. Death Cometh alone is formidable, with Blood pool, sacrifice, bloodflow and enhanced circulation its a quiet a tree. Which tree is better all depends on how you play and which you prefer. In the end no one can tell you what to do, how to control your character or what to upgrade, this is a game for a reason not a puzzle game with only one correct answer.

    Having said all that I might sound like I'm contradicting myself but I agree that priest is weak compared to other class and hope that we get some revamp, or get a cool new update/skill with the 3rd rebirth that's anticipated. Nonetheless its just a game, as long as you enjoy playing stats doesn't matter (forever noob haha >.< ). Good luck on your server.
    Last edited by TpstT; 11-26-2013, 10:14 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Witch_s65
    replied
    Originally posted by Zuzap View Post
    Even as a supportive role, which the priests were supposed to be built for, begins to be redundant later on.

    With the introduction of the beast soul, specifically seiryu soul, basically make most toons with decent attack speeds almost invincible, especially rogues who can, with 200% attack speed (which most non-noob rogues have) regen 20% HP per sec. This outheals the priest's light heal which is the skill that heals the most that does not have a big cooldown.

    Knights and their bloodlust skill can lifesteal about the same as a priest can heal, with no cast time and a constant dps.

    When laddering endgame or whatever, priests almost always do nothing, because the DPS or tank either get one shot or don't need many heals at all with pet rotation and stun locks and kiting skills.

    No one ever parties up for dungeons so priests are useless there too.

    R2 we need you to listen to the priests. I love the priest class and their cuteness but the difference in power is just too large. People who i should be much stronger than at my level and gear can kill me and i cant do anythin
    We have a few Supportive healers on our server, but people laugh at them.
    The server is relatively new, but it has Scions now and we are quickly noticing that Supportive Holy priests are not even useful.

    It's sad, both spec's are so useless, Majority of players prefer "Hybrid" because over half of the skills in either spec are almost useless at under the middle point of the game, rendering the class a low level alt farmer class.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zuzap
    replied
    Even as a supportive role, which the priests were supposed to be built for, begins to be redundant later on.

    With the introduction of the beast soul, specifically seiryu soul, basically make most toons with decent attack speeds almost invincible, especially rogues who can, with 200% attack speed (which most non-noob rogues have) regen 20% HP per sec. This outheals the priest's light heal which is the skill that heals the most that does not have a big cooldown.

    Knights and their bloodlust skill can lifesteal about the same as a priest can heal, with no cast time and a constant dps.

    When laddering endgame or whatever, priests almost always do nothing, because the DPS or tank either get one shot or don't need many heals at all with pet rotation and stun locks and kiting skills.

    No one ever parties up for dungeons so priests are useless there too.

    R2 we need you to listen to the priests. I love the priest class and their cuteness but the difference in power is just too large. People who i should be much stronger than at my level and gear can kill me and i cant do anythin

    Leave a comment:


  • Witch_s65
    replied
    Indeed.

    Basically i have already noticed this myself.. even at a scion level.
    -Priest requires LOTS of crystal to be balanced as equals to all other class's. and if any of those other class's throw that kind of Crystal at their character.. then the Priest is not even close to balanced/competitive with the other class's.

    This thread has confirmed to me what i feared.. and that is the Priest class in R2's balance system is very underpowered and requiring alot more skill/crystal to be of equal standing with other class's.
    -I repeat myself, that the 2 year old thread for priest's has been overlooked and possibly not even read by any R2 staff, the 1 patch for the IMP Holy Light is something that any player would have thought would have been done back when level 150 was added to the game..

    Blood.. Holy... Hybrid.. whichever spec you want to look at, are weaker in all aspects of PVP when compared to all other class's, only in early PVE.. priests are good, and that stops at level 65, after this all class's catch up to be as equals in PVE, level 65 is under half the level of what the game offers.
    -The priest gear benefits don't even work well with Crystal Saga's current world, the regen is nothing, they also get less stats on the gear in Savage and Slayer.
    -You can verify this with the Tank priest Synth set for PVE also, It gives strength.. but somehow game developers don't see a problem with a Melee fighter sharing gear with a Magic caster.

    I have had people tell me that they know a few R2 people who play CS, and none of them play Priest's.. so how do they even test or know anything about priests without taking the time to level them and test them and see what is actually happening in their game.
    -And then we look at all the feedback players have given, that looks like it is completely ignored.

    The constant lack of R2 feedback in all the threads i have been researching for priest's is very upsetting and disappointing.
    -It looks like they had 1 forum moderator or R2 employee a long time ago.. like 1-2 years ago, but it seems they have quit and from that.. the whole R2 communication stopped dead, the only thing we can get out of R2 is from the forum Moderators, like R2 doesn't even want to talk to its players.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zuzap
    replied
    Blood spec is certainly stronger for pvp endgame but pve wise those buffs are really nice, especially early game.

    Leave a comment:


  • sithewarrior
    replied
    Let me clarify something about 1:
    I meant pure end is weak, blood skill spec is stronger than holy priests but only marginally
    pure end in either build is weaker

    Leave a comment:


  • Zuzap
    replied
    Oh right one more thing.

    The priest frag weapon is quite weak compared to others. This is because when other classes get cool bonuses such as move speed, crit damage, etc etc we get HP and MP regen. REALLY useful huh.

    200-300 every 3 sec at high level frag. SO useful when at that stage you can heal 70-80k in 1 sec. MP regen. I mean, really? Not like we dont already have 10% mp regen every 10sec or if youre blood, maxed out MP orb and pots. About the two most useless bonuses possible.

    The priest slayers set is also quite nerfed in that we get less dodge and hit than other classes which is the reason most people use slayers. But instead get more HP and MDEF which, endgame a few extra hundred HP and MDEF is useless.

    I've recently realised how nerfed priests are as compared to all other classes (rogues especially) and i feel sad that you have come to this realization too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Witch_s65
    replied
    Originally posted by sithewarrior View Post
    I'm a blood focused hybrid and here's my input on your questions:

    1: from what I've heard, definitely weaker than pure int or hybrid stats

    2: pure agi is endgame. When you're pretty invincible, pure agi is only meant for pvp + more dodge in general. But remember that its greatly impacted on your soul level and whether or not you've already speced for pure agi. Without having a lot of stats/equips invested into your regular stats like hp def and m.atk, pure agi will gimp you a lot early on

    3: this depends on whether you're blood or holy focused hybrid. Death cometh is the game changer for priests because of its ability to give stun immunity for 10sec. Blood pool is also a must have for pvp because its an aoe silencer with now EXTRA large range. They are still under powered compared to other classes tho

    4: the problem with the blood tree is that it was nerfed when it came here. evidence of this can be seen on other versions where blood guard gave %hp, demons grasp did % hp drain dmg (based off targets hp) for example (not to mention how long death cometh was terribly glitched for several months since its initial release here). The game mechanics of curse also makes it less useful in any situation because of its additive multiplier against players. E.g. if a player had 200% atk, a maxed out curse of weakness caused the players attack to be 175% bonus instead of causing an overall 25% reduction. Number example: player with 100k base + 200% multiplier = 200k, curse of weakness = 175k atk instead of 150k atk. By endgame pvp, this reduction effect is extremely insignificant. Same applies to ring of decay. phlegmatic curse has some emrits but because every class except priests can counter it, its quite difficult to enjoy pvp (knights can charge with 130 skill, rogues can dash + purge glitch, mages can blink, rangers can purge, priests are... already ranged). The only merit to the blood tree for pvp is enhanced circulations 15% reduction, blood fog for forcing players to untarget you (useless if a mage uses only explosion), and sacrifice+death cometh for the best heal while in combat

    5: continuing in relation to 4, yes it is not signicantly stronger than holy. blood flow gives 15% more attack which is addictive to your existing multipliers, not a final multiplier. The same applies to death cometh. So are you gaining more dps by using death cometh to boost your dmg? debatable. with significant attack speeds and high crit dmg and 100% crit rate, 1 attack could easily oust the bonuses attributed to death cometh not to mention a frost proc on top of that. Death cometh does allow priests to tank earlier than any class for 10sec however
    hp regen is way too weak in any version of cs (skill or passive or otherwise) also refer to my notes on curses

    The true trade off between holy and blood is 15% reduction, and 10% atk (15% blood vs 25% holy), 10% passive heal per sec, the ability to res (useless for soloers), 25% def (less significant at higher lvs), the ability to purge, stealthing, and a support based stun (also glitched as casting is affecting its time). (excluding scion,eido, and 130/140 off the list)

    6. light beam is very good in seng if you got the cast speed and the stats, spirit infusion is actually a priests hardest hitting skill. Bloods have an easier time in seng as they can drain. Heals are only useful when you have the stats to use it decently and only healing wave imo. The other heals are usually used after fights not post. Players pretty much die in 2-3 hits so healing is rarely used post fight

    if you have any more questions, feel free to pm or refer to my guide
    I need to pick this post apart to understand.

    1: blood = weaker than int and hybrid.

    2: pure agi is endgame only, and requires heavy soul.

    3: death cometh is handy because it has stun immunity, blood pool is handy for its aoe silence, but priest damage is noticeably weaker than all other class's.

    4: R2 nerfed priest blood spec, curses don't work as the tooltip says, not working overall, just subtracting the % from the % asif it were + and -
    -end game curses effects are useless, causing people to only ever put 1 point in them.
    -every class can counter curses, except the class that can cast them...
    -enhanced circulation for the magic dmg reduction, the regen is useless.
    -blood fog is handy, sometimes.

    5: blood spec is stronger than holy because of bloodflow and death cometh.
    -early game priests can tank better, but later they cannot.
    -hp regen is horrible
    -some blood skills are still glitched

    6: light beam and spirit infusion are the best damage dealing spells for priest, but require alot of cast speed and stats.
    -most heals are used after a fight, healing during a fight is not an option.
    -most people die in 2-3 hits in end game




    So to sum up..

    Everything everyone has mentioned is correct.
    You have more information to make everyone's accusations FACT.
    There is clearly a balancing issue, and bgs and glitches with blood priests that has been going on for a looooong time..

    PVP end game is boring and almost instant.
    Defenses/Resists mean nothing at end game. (only dodge and stuns)

    I have read your thread, im always double checking on that thread, i don't understand some of the info on their, because its all clumped into a big fat paragraph sometimes, makes it hard to read.
    And not at any fault of your own, the forum is not easy to organise your post's the way you want it.

    I thought R2 had some dev's on staff that fixed bugs? i was told that by someone, 7 months.. or more is way too long to notice and fix a bug.
    R2 are you listening to your CS players?
    Last edited by Witch_s65; 11-24-2013, 08:29 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • sithewarrior
    replied
    Originally posted by Witch_s65 View Post
    1. Are there any Eidolon pure endurance/blood spec priests out there?
    -not hybrid but pure blood spec, and do you enjoy it? (please give as much info as you feel necessary or message me on these forums)


    2. Are there any Eidolon pure AGI priests out there?
    -is it good or bad? the only thread i found about this was edited with all the info removed. (please give as much info as you feel necessary or message me on these forums)


    3. Do Priests balance well in the Late/END game standards compared to other class's? for PVP and PVE
    -like are you able to fight as good as others in say Sengolia or do Priests get killed alot quicker than anyone else.


    4. Was Blood spec meant to be a tanky damage dealer type of spec?
    -i see evidence of it within the spec, but as i level high the benefits are really insignificant.


    5. Do the Blood spec skills seem weak to anyone else?
    -As in, they seem like they were made for very low level priests and do-not scale to high level priest standards for Eidolon for example.
    -Another example would be "Enhanced Circulation" - the HP regen.. you would basically only go into this skill if you wanted more Magic damage reduction.
    -the blood spec skills seem to give less bonus's than what you would get if you went holy or hybrid.


    6. Are Holy priests at Eidolon Strong in Sengolia?
    -are holy priests able to heal through other players damage? or do they just fight and heals are insignificant at that level?


    I think that's all my questions i have
    I'm a blood focused hybrid and here's my input on your questions:

    1: from what I've heard, definitely weaker than pure int or hybrid stats

    2: pure agi is endgame. When you're pretty invincible, pure agi is only meant for pvp + more dodge in general. But remember that its greatly impacted on your soul level and whether or not you've already speced for pure agi. Without having a lot of stats/equips invested into your regular stats like hp def and m.atk, pure agi will gimp you a lot early on

    3: this depends on whether you're blood or holy focused hybrid. Death cometh is the game changer for priests because of its ability to give stun immunity for 10sec. Blood pool is also a must have for pvp because its an aoe silencer with now EXTRA large range. They are still under powered compared to other classes tho

    4: the problem with the blood tree is that it was nerfed when it came here. evidence of this can be seen on other versions where blood guard gave %hp, demons grasp did % hp drain dmg (based off targets hp) for example (not to mention how long death cometh was terribly glitched for several months since its initial release here). The game mechanics of curse also makes it less useful in any situation because of its additive multiplier against players. E.g. if a player had 200% atk, a maxed out curse of weakness caused the players attack to be 175% bonus instead of causing an overall 25% reduction. Number example: player with 100k base + 200% multiplier = 200k, curse of weakness = 175k atk instead of 150k atk. By endgame pvp, this reduction effect is extremely insignificant. Same applies to ring of decay. phlegmatic curse has some emrits but because every class except priests can counter it, its quite difficult to enjoy pvp (knights can charge with 130 skill, rogues can dash + purge glitch, mages can blink, rangers can purge, priests are... already ranged). The only merit to the blood tree for pvp is enhanced circulations 15% reduction, blood fog for forcing players to untarget you (useless if a mage uses only explosion), and sacrifice+death cometh for the best heal while in combat

    5: continuing in relation to 4, yes it is not signicantly stronger than holy. blood flow gives 15% more attack which is addictive to your existing multipliers, not a final multiplier. The same applies to death cometh. So are you gaining more dps by using death cometh to boost your dmg? debatable. with significant attack speeds and high crit dmg and 100% crit rate, 1 attack could easily oust the bonuses attributed to death cometh not to mention a frost proc on top of that. Death cometh does allow priests to tank earlier than any class for 10sec however
    hp regen is way too weak in any version of cs (skill or passive or otherwise) also refer to my notes on curses

    The true trade off between holy and blood is 15% reduction, and 10% atk (15% blood vs 25% holy), 10% passive heal per sec, the ability to res (useless for soloers), 25% def (less significant at higher lvs), the ability to purge, stealthing, and a support based stun (also glitched as casting is affecting its time). (excluding scion,eido, and 130/140 off the list)

    6. light beam is very good in seng if you got the cast speed and the stats, spirit infusion is actually a priests hardest hitting skill. Bloods have an easier time in seng as they can drain. Heals are only useful when you have the stats to use it decently and only healing wave imo. The other heals are usually used after fights not post. Players pretty much die in 2-3 hits so healing is rarely used post fight

    if you have any more questions, feel free to pm or refer to my guide

    Leave a comment:


  • Witch_s65
    replied
    So priest are gimped regardless?

    So far i have had people contact me telling me that:
    • R2 + CS = Dead Game. (wonder why they still play then)
    • Priests are stronger in the original version but R2 won't update. (crystal legacy or something like this)
    • Blood Priests suck, none of their skills ever get updated. (nothing changed ever or only thing changes was a massive nerf)
    • Priests only get nerfed. (recent patch says otherwise, but i wonder why a 2year old priest thread was ignored and only 1 spell was changed, yes i read the entire thing)
    • AGI priests are the best. (only 1 priest so far has come forward and told me about their agi priest, all other threads or information about this has been removed from the forum)
    • Priests are for farming low level dungeons for PC. (this everyone knows because blood priests skills are setup to do this stuff for level dungeons, when reading the tooltips you can see it for yourself)
    • END-GAME PVP is a joke, it's all 1 hit kills and stunlocks, no skills, just instant deaths and no fun, defenses mean nothing.
    I get alot of negative feedback about priests, more than what i have listed above.

    People are telling me that R2 take forever to update the game because they want to bleed it dry and just abandon it..
    So im at a stage where im wondering *** i am doing playing a game that has no future.

    No Future in the sense that, the recent patch where the priest skill "Improved Holy Light" is on all other server's and has been since the start of the original game..

    I also keep getting told that Crystal Saga only has 2 years of life left before everyone quits.


    I regret asking these questions.. because it has taken me to the dark side of the game, i really was not prepared for what i heard..
    Repeatedly.. and from multiples of people..

    So i leave this thread.. bewildered, wondering.. wth..
    Last edited by Witch_s65; 11-24-2013, 01:53 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aionyx
    replied
    Originally posted by Witch_s65 View Post
    1. Are there any Eidolon pure endurance/blood spec priests out there?
    -not hybrid but pure blood spec, and do you enjoy it? (please give as much info as you feel necessary or message me on these forums)


    2. Are there any Eidolon pure AGI priests out there?
    -is it good or bad? the only thread i found about this was edited with all the info removed. (please give as much info as you feel necessary or message me on these forums)


    3. Do Priests balance well in the Late/END game standards compared to other class's? for PVP and PVE
    -like are you able to fight as good as others in say Sengolia or do Priests get killed alot quicker than anyone else.


    4. Was Blood spec meant to be a tanky damage dealer type of spec?
    -i see evidence of it within the spec, but as i level high the benefits are really insignificant.


    5. Do the Blood spec skills seem weak to anyone else?
    -As in, they seem like they were made for very low level priests and do-not scale to high level priest standards for Eidolon for example.
    -Another example would be "Enhanced Circulation" - the HP regen.. you would basically only go into this skill if you wanted more Magic damage reduction.
    -the blood spec skills seem to give less bonus's than what you would get if you went holy or hybrid.


    6. Are Holy priests at Eidolon Strong in Sengolia?
    -are holy priests able to heal through other players damage? or do they just fight and heals are insignificant at that level?


    I think that's all my questions i have
    lets sum this up fast shall we? priest ain't built for pk vs knight/rogue/ranger/mage period.... maybe priests or weaker ppl sad to say but like was mentioned u'd have to be 3 times more op than a knight and that might allow u to beat him so basically u have to cash like GaLon or something and why waste all that money on a priest when u could make an INSANE knight o.0 but its not nessisarly the priets fault,i blame the frags and cash related things that make fighting a 1 hit bloodfest :P personally the should make frag armors or something to balance out the frag weapons lol

    Leave a comment:


  • paluchi
    replied
    If you want to pm me via forum or talk to me in-game, I am a Pure Blood with Holy Offensive priest, and have been called OP. So there's a 10 second answer to #1 .
    IGN: (J5)Awesome3
    Server 58

    Leave a comment:


  • Witch_s65
    replied
    Ok, so I managed to get a few people contact me via Forum messages, that had alot more detail and were able to supply me with screenshots.

    A couple of the people were so geared that im not sure what i was looking at lol.


    But i managed to gather a bunch of information, that im wanting to share and get some feedback on.

    Majority of the Priests had these:
    • Blood Attack Spells
    • Level 1 curses from blood spec
    • Hybrid spec with majority of their points in Holy.
    There was 1 exception, a priest who was full Blood except for the middle path on the Holy tree, with the Heal/IMP Holy Light/Grace/Circle of Healing.
    I asked why, he said it came down to preference and at his level it works out better for the way he plays at his level and gear, but he mentioned that alot of other priests play Hybrid.

    All of the people who contacted me via Private Message, did not know about any of the bugs, previously or currently with some of the Blood Spec skills.
    For Example: Demon Grasp being effected by Casting Speed, causing the spell to finish earlier than it says.

    And none of them could see a difference between "Tenacity" over "Guardian's Protection"
    I still have to speak to one of the people about this, but so far none of them who tested this could tell you that Tenacity is even working, and is a waste of 5 points, because you only get a minor boost, if it's even working.
    If that skill had something else on it like "1% chance to hit" or "1% chance on get hit to steal 1% max life" then have it go up by 1% per point, with a total of 5%, then they would definitely put 5 points into it.

    I did mention to a few of them about the lacking skills like "Enhanced Circulation"
    And they basically ignored it and said "the regen is super bad, only get it for the magic reduction" i got the impression that the reduction was not impressive to them.

    Leave a comment:

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