Fail in shadow rogues' eidolon skill

[HeimdaII]

Well, I believe I'm not the only rogue that has noticed how the shadow eidolon skill Invincibility is not working like it should've been. The skill description says that it should be giving 1 second of invincibility while it's giving 1 second of magic immunity. Not to mention that 1 second is almost impossible to use properly in any situation, be it PvP or PvE. I've also noticed that taking you out of battle is only convenient for when you want to change instances and you were surrounded by mobs till 1 second ago, since even if it is taking you out of battle, the moment you are attacked you go battle mode again, giving you no time to stealth, change instances, or whatever you wanted to do that can only be done when not in battle. It also caught my attention, that if you have artic blast triggered and you use the skill to get out of battle, you get back in as fast as you come out.

With all those issues with the skill, i think it would be better if it would give more than 1 second of invincibility, be it 1.5 second at lvl 1 and add 0.5 each lvl, maybe get rid of the get out of battle and add something else that can actually be useful, and obviously, fix the skill so that it properly adds invincibility instead of just magic immunity.




I would like to hear what other people think about my opinion about what should be done with the skill.

[sebastian1988]

Might just be a wrong buff description.
More annoying for me is that sometimes my skills reset cooldown without doing anything. Like hitting my hotkey for quickdeath, nothing happens but skill on cd.
Or my toon not moving in afk sometimes when I activate slayers sprint.
Or that our debuff passive can't debuff negative buffs like the stun in spernal/ silence in spernal or the negative buffs in survival. While other classes passive skills work there with no problems

[HeimdaII]

It can't be a bad description when the skill is called Invincibility, nor when the magic immunity cancels the one from Killer's Den, as i said, it's not working as it should, and even if i find annoying how Slayer's toughness doesn't work in survival while the passives from other classes do (can't say anything about spernal, since the buffs from the new dungeons are made that way so they can't be unbuffed), since i chose to go with shadow skills, it's more annoying that the rebirth skills that should be the best ones, are actually a waste of skill points.
Happened before with quick death, when it used to consume 10 times the mana of the description, always the shadow rogue rebirth skills came with a problem, and they always ended being a waste to focus on them. I still used them, since i knew it was a matter of time for them to be fixed, but when you get a useless skill in the second rebirth, it's just too much.

[sebastian1988]

Combat Skills arent much better
In our version of this game our hp is far lower than in any other version. So we cant take much advantage of devoid since it req. our hp to be 30% or below to be casted.

Unless you have really high hp (300k-400k) then you wont use it that much except if you use it in spernal or exelorn to suicide, revive and then suicide again until you luck out.
So they should raise the hp% to make that skill useful.

[HeimdaII]

If you really believe a skill that works perfectly needs to be fixed, then I believe you are the one that needs to be fixed. That skill is perfect as it is, since combat rogues are supposed to have a high dodge rate, making them hard to get hit or hard to die when they hp is low, so the 30% hp limit, is well placed. But if they were to fix that skill, i would make it passive, and to get active when hp is bellow 20 or 15%.
Now, if we go back to the main problem, I'm talking about a skill that's not working as it should, and even if it did, the only good use for that skill is the attack buff it's giving. But to be just an attack buff, it's not good enough to be a skill for the 2nd rebirth. Maybe if it had some life steal it would be a bit useful. 1.5 secs of invincibility, +0.5 per lvl, the attack buff it gives atm, and maybe a 10% or 20% life steal, and i would be able to call that skill and eidolon skill, for now it's barely a lvl 70 skill for me.

[sebastian1988]

If you really believe a skill that works perfectly needs to be fixed, then I believe you are the one that needs to be fixed. That skill is perfect as it is, since combat rogues are supposed to have a high dodge rate, making them hard to get hit or hard to die when they hp is low, so the 30% hp limit, is well placed. But if they were to fix that skill, i would make it passive, and to get active when hp is bellow 20 or 15%.
Now, if we go back to the main problem, I'm talking about a skill that's not working as it should, and even if it did, the only good use for that skill is the attack buff it's giving. But to be just an attack buff, it's not good enough to be a skill for the 2nd rebirth. Maybe if it had some life steal it would be a bit useful. 1.5 secs of invincibility, +0.5 per lvl, the attack buff it gives atm, and maybe a 10% or 20% life steal, and i would be able to call that skill and eidolon skill, for now it's barely a lvl 70 skill for me.

The main use of the shadow eidolon skill is the attack increase. It actually works that way it is except that it debuffs magic immunity in killers den.
I'm not sure about your server but on a well developed server, you wont be able to dodge many hits unless you dodge rate is far above 100%.
People easily reach 60-70% hitrate, you cant keep up with that except with your 8 seconds of +50% dodgerate from vagabond. However, combat rogue doesnt dodge more than shadow, because all good rogues go hybrid.

Devoid is a pretty useful skill for shadow rogues. Devoid > Restealth> Devoid > Restealth, while the shadow rebirth skills are really useful for combat rogues.

The chance to success with devoid is really low and with most people not having much HP (mine is buffed around 190k) while everyone having high attack (sperion, blessing, whatever), your 30% hp means that you will most likely die before using it. Even with 200k HP, you need to be at 60k HP to be able to actually use devoid. However, I crit more than that and so do many people. If you were to use devoid against me or any other well build lvl 100 eidolon, no chance.

So no, I disagree. I think Shadow Eidolon Skill is far better than devoid.

[HeimdaII]

Since in the servers I got merged with there is people with almost 100% dodge rate, I believe there should be no problem for that to happen in your server. I personally have 74% dodge rate, and I'm not even with superior VII frag weapon. I know dodge rate is not as good as it seems given the amount of hit rate one can get.

But what I'm complaining about is that Invincibility (Awakening II) is not good enough to be called an eidolon skill. Other classes got skills that are far better than that, as an example knights got 7 seconds of invincibility, mages got invincibility with heal, rangers got a passive invincibility, so I believe I'm in my right to complain when the rogue's skill gives only 1 second of invincibility (not to mention it's giving magic immunity) that can't be timed in any battle to actually make use of it. And if it's only good because of the attack buff, then why even make it to take you out of battle, since the purpose of it is to actually stay in battle. The skill itself didn't got much thinking on it if you ask me, since it contradicts itself, and since there is only 1 attribute that's actually useful in it.

Last thing, when did I said that I believe Devoid is better than Invincibility, I just said that skill doesn't need any fixing, and that is fine as it is now.

[sebastian1988]

Since in the servers I got merged with there is people with almost 100% dodge rate, I believe there should be no problem for that to happen in your server. I personally have 74% dodge rate, and I'm not even with superior VII frag weapon. I know dodge rate is not as good as it seems given the amount of hit rate one can get.

I can reach 100% dodge as well, but there is no way to keep up with 70% hitrates. It doesnt make devoid useful for combat rogues, it seems to be a shadow rogue skill.

But what I'm complaining about is that Invincibility (Awakening II) is not good enough to be called an eidolon skill. Other classes got skills that are far better than that, as an example knights got 7 seconds of invincibility, mages got invincibility with heal, rangers got a passive invincibility, so I believe I'm in my right to complain when the rogue's skill gives only 1 second of invincibility (not to mention it's giving magic immunity) that can't be timed in any battle to actually make use of it. And if it's only good because of the attack buff, then why even make it to take you out of battle, since the purpose of it is to actually stay in battle. The skill itself didn't got much thinking on it if you ask me, since it contradicts itself, and since there is only 1 attribute that's actually useful in it.

Our invul skill has a lower duration, but we have the higher dps. Seeing a rogue with 2-3 sec invul is death for all other classes in 1 vs 1. The use of it is for shadow rogues to go back into stealth. And yes, you gotta move, walk out of your opponents range, what ever, just to not get hit back into combat mode. Or just be fast enough with pressing your hotkeys

Also having a shadow rogue with +25% atk for 10 seconds hitting you out of stealth hurts.
I'm sure that the skill give complete invul and that it is only a typo. I have used Quickdeath on rogues who popped their invul and they didnt get hit.

The shadow eidolon skill works fine.

Last thing, when did I said that I believe Devoid is better than Invincibility, I just said that skill doesn't need any fixing, and that is fine as it is now.

Well, I'm really disappointed about the use of devoid and I think it needs to be changed as well. Right now, it is a useless skill that most people won't be able to use much. Why wasting 5 SP on a skill that you can only use all few days. It for sure does, what the description says, but I won't consider it fine.

[HeimdaII]

I would like to see how fast you can be when you can't get in stealth while the invincibility is on. And any class with invincibility is death to everyone, even mages can get to 100% crit if they work on it with soul. And knights have rebound, making the invincibility time they have even more annoying for any class, not to mention rogues with their attack speed. But once again, I didn't make this post to say how unfair it is, since everyone has complained about how rogues are so unbalanced because of our high crit and dodge rate, and because we can stealth, people are dumb in my opinion. All classes have their own ways of being played, and all classes have good skills. The skills you get when you rebirth should be the best skills you can get, and as I've been saying all along, our eidolon skill, doesn't even get close to be called a rebirth skill, specially when if you want an attack boost you have the combat scion skill, that has less CD, and last longer.

And i know many people who use Devoid, find it very useful, and that skill is not only about the chance to instant kill, it also has a good dmg, if i'm not wrong 210% on lvl 6, that with 300% crit dmg you would end up doing 630% your dmg. So as I said, that skill is well done, the shadow one is the one that needs to be worked on.

[Saisaishi]

It should be longer than 1 sec, gives us another chance to get back into Stealth is what I was thinking but I wish we could learn Devoid alongside Quick Death. Would be one insane combo mix right there.

[sebastian1988]

It is not easy to restealth with it in battle but shadow rogue have shadow strike for that. The eidolon skill is to quickly restealth after killing an opponent or to restealth while running away. You just gotta be out of range of your opponent and he cant draw you back into battle.

Sure, devoid has 210% dmg but how often is a rogue at 30% hp or less without dying?
You are more likely to pull out high dps with 25% additional attack. Shadow eidolon skill -> Shadow Scion Skill = 10 hits with additional 25% makes it 250% and that is even more than only 210% dmg. And yea, that damage is in addition while devoid "only" adds 110% atk in a timeframe where you most likely die.
besides that, 10 seconds of 25% additional attack with high atk speed and at least 100% crit is for a rogue a dream. I do have 450% atk speed with my gem combination, dont underestimate that boost.

Seeing how all classes can easily hit 100% crit and high atk speed takes away the advantages of a rogue.

[HeimdaII]

You can't be that dumb to not notice that if you have to run away to be able to restealth when using invincibility, why not just run away till you are out of battle, the time it takes for you to be as far as you need to have time to restealth, it's the same time it takes to be out of battle mode without any skill.
Btw, I actually told you that you CAN'T stealth while the immunity is up, learn to read what I post.

And, Devoid is made to do 1 last attack before getting killed to kill your opponent, while quick death is a skill to strike 10 times in 2 seconds, you can't compare 2 skills that have different purposes.

[iyasn]

Rogues are OP as it is.

[Saisaishi]

Rogues are OP as it is.

After they are geared, in the beginning I think Rogue's are the hardest class to gear/level up.

[Dode.]

im a high soul, heavy cashed rogue... our eidelon skills ARE severely lacking since everyone seems to be high hit% and high crit now, 30% life is nothing and its REALLY hard to time devoid. rogues USED to be a separate class with its own advantage. but now we are severely neutered when going up against another other eidelon class. mages 1 hit me (even with my max wings and blue aura soul), knights toss down invuln / damage return, and i hit so fast that im almost dead before i can even disengage myself. cant get near rangers at all (sleep trap / strong shot = dead) ... im combat rogue with 109% dodge fully buffed.

the one piece of humor i get out of this, is how EVERYONE was bishing about rogues, and now its the ROGUES bishing about everyone else. im going shadow rogue next week, only way to increase my survivability. max hit iv done with Devoid = 194k, and that was a staged battle so i could test it.. otherwise iv only gotten the skill off a handfull of times.