Damage Reduction issue

[MakotoHyogo]

But yet you'd do the same - since your a self admitted killer. Correct shadow? Also ranger traps are fine, Only one id like a slight change on is Sleep Trap. Id also like the desc changed on wither Since it states it stuns- when it doesn't it roots. There are a few skills in the Ranger tree which makes me wonder what they are ment for Such as the DOT im sure it has a use just the DOT is so small its ineffective in battles. As for the other skills I dont think there is a needed Nerf's as of yet. Maybe some skills need a charge time I think such powerful attack skills as meteor might need a small charge time XD

[ShadowGammaDraco]

But yet you'd do the same - since your a self admitted killer. Correct shadow? Also ranger traps are fine, Only one id like a slight change on is Sleep Trap. Id also like the desc changed on wither Since it states it stuns- when it doesn't it roots. There are a few skills in the Ranger tree which makes me wonder what they are ment for Such as the DOT im sure it has a use just the DOT is so small its ineffective in battles. As for the other skills I dont think there is a needed Nerf's as of yet. Maybe some skills need a charge time I think such powerful attack skills as meteor might need a small charge time XD

i'm not making threads to have changes over an over because i lost in battle to a knight tho. or asking rogue to be nerf'd etc etc etc etc.
yes you think they are fine. but what i'm saying is we have all heard the "omg you blinked, CHEATER!""omg who put that annoying trap there its been forever already it shouldn't be there" speech in wc. this thread is a variation of what they've done in the past. when i lose a fight against a knight who has more stats then me. long as they didn't trash talk i said. gg, don't make a thread asking to make my firewave reduce their dmg reduc+defenses. some of these abilitys or changes requesting to be changed would effect the whole game. so then other stuff has to change too. the people that make these threads never post how its going to effect new servers and development from the start.or other classes. its about them being able to kill someone from their server better. and you think everything should change for a reason like that? that's a personal vendetta. jealousy that someone has something else better then you.

[MakotoHyogo]

Not really jealous since I have a knight alt i think it would even possible work better like this..Just saying Shadow id like you to read some of my posts. Also the ranger version of The meteor, (strong shot) Takes three seconds.so it would be just balancing it imo. XD but then i've had an alt almost of every class. With at least them getting to 70.

But see what you wish to see shadow, I kinda am getting bored arguing with you over this thread- it was just asked to be looked into and yet this whole thread you believe it was asked to be changed. You clearly do not understand my words. Or pre haps I'am not laying them out to you. So goodnight and enjoy your 'Mod' Status

[ShadowGammaDraco]

Not really jealous since I have a knight alt i think it would even possible work better like this..Just saying Shadow id like you to read some of my posts. Also the ranger version of The meteor, (strong shot) Takes three seconds.so it would be just balancing it imo. XD but then i've had an alt almost of every class. With at least them getting to 70.

But see what you wish to see shadow, I kinda am getting bored arguing with you over this thread- it was just asked to be looked into and yet this whole thread you believe it was asked to be changed. You clearly do not understand my words. Or pre haps I'am not laying them out to you. So goodnight and enjoy your 'Mod' Status

have nothing against you or really arguing with you, an the jelly part wasn't directed at you, unless your jade. an if you play multiple characters then good. your insight would be appreciated more then jades. it also takes a lot of def to make a % of dmg reduction. so we would be seeing people with seng stats in defense or higher. if R2's even allowed to make a change like that.

and you know. i'm getting really tired of people pulling the "moderator card" tho. if i decide to quit tho sometime soon. i'd say the same things anyways, even before i was a mod, if anything i'm showing immense restraint. i'm a player more then a moderator.
ya i mainly try to think of event ideas where we work together so we help make up for each others up an downs instead of changing what we already have. unless its actually broken. since thats R2's main focus,
we even have a event that doesn't have the dmg reduc as a issue . Tamalan. thats all about how well you can build ur skills an pvp. can always have the pvp fun there if you want a perfect balance.
in describing what R2's main focus is i just gave best tip of how to get ur idea implemented if they consider it.

if thats not plainly enough. think of a fun event. instead of a broad change that would possibly have to rework the game ground up from mobs to bosses to seng or delivery buffs, and priests buffs an skills an what stat points give. would give gms less work-and possibly more in their copyright allowance and make the ideas sound more interesting.

the serious draw back to this suggestion about dmg reduc turned into defenses or where could run into problems.
1. priest buffs then have to be changed or the code modified not to boost the new dmg reduc bonus to pdef an mdef . imagine guardians protection being cast on them, lv 5- 25% +50 if glitches and stacks, you end up getting a boost of 25%+50 to that scary 70% dmg reduc complain about by thread op/ on top of their defenses already. don't think it'll happen? "the skill says boosts defense modifiers" so why not? not stackable?!?! omg then there's another thread to ask that it be since it's the same modifier "then it should work as its supposed to".
2. will we run into problems like say. since its considered one modifier now, everytime someone gets hit, their Mdef an pdef stat jumps around.
3. if once that #2 error happens will we run into error #3 where someone else patk hit them an someone else patk hits them a split second later, giving either a epic nerf or advantage to a patk or matk person/mdef/pdef. since the attack was of different strengths the modifier would have to constantly change our pdef and mdef. unless calculated as a separate modifier.

so instead of nerfing ppl or making them weaker, to kill with a skill that penetrates all defenses. you could potentially even make them harder to kill. and you will have to depend on soley that skill to then kill everyone in the game. which it has a quite long CD in compared to "the meat" of the skills
4. when entering ladder delivery and seng, those codes will have to change since modifiers are calculated differently.
5. this will also effect pets. since they have damage reduction modifiers. if not. then it shouldn't be changed. or is that not what this thread is about an just about everyone like it? there was some modifier that saved someone else's skin an or won the other bragging right out of pure chance, an they want it changed so it doesn't happen again.

it'd be like trying to fuse crit dmg into crit potential . then using pots to boost basically both. or a skill that nerfs one then in effect now the other as well.or curses to nerf both.
i see a variety of ways this could be abused in various fashions to a epic degree if anything happens. an we all know murphys law. if it can go wrong. it will go wrong.
it is delicate. we already have a super complex ecosystem. why try to mess it up more when you can create another area where what you want flourishes?

these topics tend to go in circles. think of fun events and activity's and suggest those, if you want a specific change to core of game like the basic stuff to skills-incorporate it into the event idea. those are more plausible and inside R2s copyright limitations


an if you are about to reply "its just a suggestion, shouldn't be that big of a deal"
think of it this way. its not even what the original has as a change. so changing that is epic outside contract. then also. that's unknown territory. i.e writing the codes from scratch and having to integrate them. then reworking the whole system models.
and by the looks of how impatient ppl are . your gonna be flaming these threads every day from sun up till sundown about how the change is good an needs to be done like the priest thread we got goin on. sooo. that would add a HEFTY time frame of before that might end up being worked on. just to scratch the surface. especially since the game isn't fully released yet. think of events instead of trying to do what has been done in these sad threads which people have created knowing what gms have said before. build from what you know. instead of stabbing at the dark an gettin no where.

these topics tend to go in circles. think of fun events and activity's and suggest those, if you want a specific change to core of game like the basic stuff to skills-incorporate it into the event idea. those are more plausible and inside R2s copyright limitations

[JadedOblivion]

Damage reduction doesn't modify defense stats, it is it's own modifier based on incoming attacks. It is for that reason alone that even someone with no armor and very little defense is able to block a portion of incoming damage when all defense is ignored.

Both the damage reduction and the rogue skill look like they are working as intended, so my opinion on the matter is if damage reduction is included as a defense stat and able to be ignored, then the rogue skill would need to be adjusted from 100% to something less to compensate. It's all about balance- if you change one thing, everything else related to it must change as well.

After looking at the system, you may be right about it not being effected by armor, but one undeniable fact is that the Assassin Thrust skill says it ignores 100% of the enemies defenses. I'm sure you can agree it is still a defensive stat in combat there are two stats offensive and defensive and quite obviously this is a defensive stat and should be ignored as it is stated in the description of the skill. As for needing to adjust the ignore defense to lower in order to be fair there is one thing to be said about this, it is a shadow rogue skill and classed as an "assassin" skill. As you will notice in many other games, stories, animes, and movies as well as it was recorded to work was as the guy walks up or runs up they aim for the throat or in the small openings in the helmet and was a fatal injury. This particular skill should "ignore all defenses".

[ShadowGammaDraco]

After looking at the system, you may be right about it not being effected by armor, but one undeniable fact is that the Assassin Thrust skill says it ignores 100% of the enemies defenses. I'm sure you can agree it is still a defensive stat in combat there are two stats offensive and defensive and quite obviously this is a defensive stat and should be ignored as it is stated in the description of the skill. As for needing to adjust the ignore defense to lower in order to be fair there is one thing to be said about this, it is a shadow rogue skill and classed as an "assassin" skill. As you will notice in many other games, stories, animes, and movies as well as it was recorded to work was as the guy walks up or runs up they aim for the throat or in the small openings in the helmet and was a fatal injury. This particular skill should "ignore all defenses".

in most anime an stuff ppl can use spiritual energy to mitigate dmg tho even if a direct hit. like in bleach they condense their energy to harden their skin, the dmg received can still be fatal or negated depending on the opponent

[inhale]

as ive seen you get damage reduction from insignia and insignia is based on military positions, so i assume damage reduction is more like your experience in battle the higher it is the more experienced you are.
opposing to ur statement that it should be changed think of that u say ur skill has 100%defence ignore but damage reduction is one of knights skills(steroids) if its removed then your skill is getting favored over other class making it even more unbalanced for other classes compared to rogues. rogues already have insane attack speed, crit chance and critical damage and on top of all that ur stun is the longer of all classes, stealthed u dont have to worry about being hit before u hit unless u unlucky to walk into a curse or randomly hit by a mage.

[JadedOblivion]

in most anime an stuff ppl can use spiritual energy to mitigate dmg tho even if a direct hit. like in bleach they condense their energy to harden their skin, the dmg received can still be fatal or negated depending on the opponent

This is the smartest thing you've posted props to you. You absolutely have me on that and a good very good source to back it bravo. But then the skill should say doesn't include damage reductions. And that's why I didn't say anything should be nerfed but rather looked into. Thank you for finally contributing something worth while.

[JadedOblivion]

as ive seen you get damage reduction from insignia and insignia is based on military positions, so i assume damage reduction is more like your experience in battle the higher it is the more experienced you are.
opposing to ur statement that it should be changed think of that u say ur skill has 100%defence ignore but damage reduction is one of knights skills(steroids) if its removed then your skill is getting favored over other class making it even more unbalanced for other classes compared to rogues. rogues already have insane attack speed, crit chance and critical damage and on top of all that ur stun is the longer of all classes, stealthed u dont have to worry about being hit before u hit unless u unlucky to walk into a curse or randomly hit by a mage.

You're wrong the longest stun in the game is the mages skill icicle armor which has a 5% chance to stun upon being attacked and it's a passive. Beyond my understanding of why a ranger at max range can still be effected by this stun and the stun lasts 5 seconds in comparison to the 4 of the rogue. 2nd my attack speed is a double sided sword, once someone has maxed out Forgiveness in the soul they have 20% chance to purge every time they're hit and because of my insane attack speed it's likely they will be released from my stun. On the other hand I have a 10% chance to re-stun but only for 1 second and to be honest even the 20% chance to purge really is meaningless if numbness kicks off because you're not going to purge 1/2 a second or if you do it wont make a difference in the event of a chain of stuns. As for cloak you're right we have a huge advantage with that but we can only cloak 1x every 60 seconds once we enter battle and once every 10 seconds outside of battle. This kind of goes back to the idea that the shadow rogue is supposed to be an assassin and very stealthy and sneaky, very good at pvp and not too great at pve. Look up Assassin and you will see that's what they do, they are proficient in the art of killing people, I think we can all agree on that.

[XrosSlash]

as ive seen you get damage reduction from insignia and insignia is based on military positions, so i assume damage reduction is more like your experience in battle the higher it is the more experienced you are.
opposing to ur statement that it should be changed think of that u say ur skill has 100%defence ignore but damage reduction is one of knights skills(steroids) if its removed then your skill is getting favored over other class making it even more unbalanced for other classes compared to rogues. rogues already have insane attack speed, crit chance and critical damage and on top of all that ur stun is the longer of all classes, stealthed u dont have to worry about being hit before u hit unless u unlucky to walk into a curse or randomly hit by a mage.

agree with shadow n inhale. if that happen, it will unfair for me as knight and other classes aswell. my skill useless, priest skill also useless. moreover, rogue has passive skill that ignore defense too. so ur attack will be skyhigh, plus insane attck speed. dont forget abaout invisibility... lol dang

[Codawg211]

You're wrong the longest stun in the game is the mages skill icicle armor which has a 5% chance to stun upon being attacked and it's a passive.

Not to through fuel to the fire, but if I recall correctly from my first (and longest played) character, Icicle Armor is a 5% chance to ROOT (ie freeze) upon being attacked. Not stun. Stun would have been lovely ;-; but overpowered given IA boosts pdef. All I ever saw from Icicle Armor (prior to rebirthing) was it randomly rooting people, never stunning them.

[smurfs16]

Not to through fuel to the fire, but if I recall correctly from my first (and longest played) character, Icicle Armor is a 5% chance to ROOT (ie freeze) upon being attacked. Not stun. Stun would have been lovely ;-; but overpowered given IA boosts pdef. All I ever saw from Icicle Armor (prior to rebirthing) was it randomly rooting people, never stunning them.

Nope Icicle is more of a sleep-effect: you cannot move, use skills or items (seemingly stun right?) but as soon as you're attacked it stops again: The attribute of sleep. Icicle is like a random Dream Trap sleeping the target when it hits you.

Stun's definition is the target cannot move, use skills or items no matter if attacked or not.
Sleep's definition is stunned untill attacked.
Root's definition is cannot move, but still use skills and items no matter if attacked or not.

[drona]

The Art of War:

Armor and Shields adds to the characters defense. Certain attacks like Assassin based skills ignore the defense characteristics of the armor, as it strikes un-armored parts of the body.

Damage Reduction is the ability of the character to deflect(Not Dodge) damage. Note that deflection still takes some impact and can be performed with an offensive weapon.
This attribute is gained by training the mind, body and soul --> in this games that translates to ones class specific skills and level. .i.e. damage reduction on SCION and Eidolon should be slightly higher than Mortals as they have grown their existence into another plane.

Note: If a skilled assassin targets the unprotected throat of its target, A highly skilled swordsman can deflect the assassins thrust with his sword. == ZERO fatal DAMAGE
I agree with Jade, this skill should be looked at:
It should be, ignores all armor related defenses with a random chance to insta-kill with the down side that you get insta-killed if you miss <-- bet no Rogue Class Player wants to see that, but that is the reality of war.

Or just changethe skill wording to ignores 100% armor defenses, which is what the skill actually does

[xPathetic]

+1 to shadow n memory..
nuff said