[Feature] Market System

[ShadowGammaDraco]

Currently Eternal Saga has this system, its one of the most advanced markets I've seen in R2 games. guessing wartunes market is similar but alas unreleased.
Basically saying its rad beyond belief.
What would like to see from it: a combination of the R2Games Affiliate program&a similar system for Crystal Saga. meaning every sale that involved someone using crystal to purchase your items, or gold, and the many combinations of those ways as long as they used crystal to buy it from the market- the player would be credited a certain amount of real life money which can then be transferred to a pay pal or bank account or back into your characters. similar to a EBAY sale, R2 would collect some fees from each of the sales. http://affiliate.r2games.com/
http://forum.r2games.com/showthread....iliate-Program
also the ability to market items anywhere in the game, it would help a lot. anything not sold in market gets put in temp storage.
this wont ruin private shops because private shops are free and no cost to open. as a market you must pay a certain amount to list the item. which not everyone wants to do. so normal shops will still exist and be wanted.

Reasoning: this would combat people selling items for real world money outside of R2Games functions. also help the players support each other and the game more.
Also to credit players more showing that yes, Time- Effort- Energy- Skill- or just a lot of cash and being able to obtain or synth a Over Powered item is worth something even in real life and can gain wealth through proper means. also to give people ability to buy and sell anywhere in the game.
people would be able to sell their gold legally if used that system, however any other means would still be against TOS.

[visualkei2]

Good job gamma we need this, and if we can buy stuff with crystals also would be great xD

[roxbox2]

I disagree i do not like the idea of getting ''real life money'' it kinda defeets the concept of cs ( working your way up to be stronger) this would make the concept be 'Working your way up to get real life money'. However i like the idea of market system like were it cost a bit of money to put a item up and maybe add the longer its up for the more u pay

[(S14)Squintina]

We've asked for this many times before so yes we would like something like that.

However, first things first: What about untradable mall items such as:

- Everything in the Love section of the mall
- Any other 1-time use items that do not affect guild rankings
- Costumes being sold. (most costumes are tradable now but the fancy costumes still aren't)
- Mounts being sold
- Pets being sold (they were being sold as tradable for a while, but the last one wasn't)

If no thought is given about such items, people will still be scammed.

Also, while this suggestion is mostly about selling stuff for crystals(essenctially money), what about the other way around? It should have the ability to buy VIP/xtals from other players using gold. Not everyone can cash, and as long as there's a player who is paying for it, it doesn't really matter who uses it now does it?

PS: Part of what made Diablo 3 really cool (not an MMO but they have something like this) is that there's both a gold marketplace, where things are sold for in-game currency, and a real life money marketplace, where items are sold for real life money and through which Blizzard takes a % of the transaction.

[sebastian1988]

After claiming that R2 is not able to develop anything on their own, unless the original CS made that, I fail to see how this could ever be implemented.

[ShadowGammaDraco]

I disagree i do not like the idea of getting ''real life money'' it kinda defeets the concept of cs ( working your way up to be stronger) this would make the concept be 'Working your way up to get real life money'. However i like the idea of market system like were it cost a bit of money to put a item up and maybe add the longer its up for the more u pay

We've asked for this many times before so yes we would like something like that.

However, first things first: What about untradable mall items such as:

- Everything in the Love section of the mall
- Any other 1-time use items that do not affect guild rankings
- Costumes being sold. (most costumes are tradable now but the fancy costumes still aren't)
- Mounts being sold
- Pets being sold (they were being sold as tradable for a while, but the last one wasn't)

If no thought is given about such items, people will still be scammed.

Also, while this suggestion is mostly about selling stuff for crystals(essenctially money), what about the other way around? It should have the ability to buy VIP/xtals from other players using gold. Not everyone can cash, and as long as there's a player who is paying for it, it doesn't really matter who uses it now does it?

PS: Part of what made Diablo 3 really cool (not an MMO but they have something like this) is that there's both a gold marketplace, where things are sold for in-game currency, and a real life money marketplace, where items are sold for real life money and through which Blizzard takes a % of the transaction.

used to play other games that had awesome marketplaces. but yes meant for all the varying means. the only way would gain any income for real life would be if someone actually used cash to get crystal, as there would have to be a few ways to prevent abuse- like trading between yourself or a group of people just recycling trades. all would be trading then would be crystal, gold, or items. no longer gaining a real world income from it. &it doesn't mean people will get instantly rich. and you usually have to spend a bit of time and energy getting a item. that means it has value or else it wouldn't sell in private shops. or be sold in fate shop for crystal. undeniable fact. so its a bit deserved, either this or the Alchemy Feature suggestion made. in the end there will have to be a set of things that would prevent any sort of abuse though. like investment schemes, so rules would still apply to that part of the system. the main part want though is a world wide market in general for trading gold for crystal, crystal for gold, items for crystal, etc etc, Eternal saga has it, its amazing. would like to explain trading.
when two people trade for items the other wants yet the owner doesn't. the item to the owner has less value then to the person needing it, so by initiating this trade functions, it will give the person getting the item from the seller something worth more then the crystal they had or w/e to their perspective. and also the seller is gaining to their perspective more then what they had before. its economics. have posted the formulas before and can quote them here

Virtual property is a label that can refer to any resource that is controlled by the powers-that-be, including virtual objects, avatars, or user accounts.[1] The following characteristics may be found in virtual resources in mimicry of tangible property. Note however that it is possible for virtual resources to lack one or more of these characteristics, and they should be interpreted with reasonable flexibility.[2]

Rivalry: Possession of a resource is limited to one person or a small number of persons within the virtual world's game mechanics.
Persistence: Virtual resources persist across user sessions. In some cases, the resource exists for public view even when its owner is not logged into the virtual world.
Interconnectivity: Resources may affect or be affected by other people and other objects. The value of a resource varies according to a person's ability to use it for creating or experiencing some effect.
Secondary markets: Virtual resources may be created, traded, bought, and sold. Real-world assets (typically money) may be at stake.
Value added by users: Users may enhance the value of virtual resources by customizing and improving upon the resource.

The existence of these conditions create an economic system with properties similar to those seen in contemporary economies. Therefore, economic theory can often be used to study these virtual worlds.

Within the virtual worlds they inhabit, synthetic economies allow in-game items to be priced according to supply and demand rather than by the developer's estimate of the item's utility. These emergent economies are considered by most players to be an asset of the game, giving an extra dimension of reality to play. In classical synthetic economies, these goods were charged only for in-game currencies. These currencies are often sold for real world profit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_theory

Someone can also use consumer theory to analyze a consumer's choice between leisure and labor. Leisure is considered one good (often put on the horizontal-axis) and consumption is considered the other good. Since a consumer has a finite and scarce amount of time, he must make a choice between leisure (which earns no income for consumption) and labor (which earns no income for consumption) and labor (which does earn income for consumption)
The previous model of consumer choice theory is applicable with only slight modifications. First, the total amount of time that an individual has to allocate is known as his time endowment, and is often denoted as T. The amount an individual allocates to labor (denoted L) and leisure (l) is constrained by T such that:


According to standard conceptions of economic value (see the subjective theory of value), the goods and services of virtual economies do have a demonstrable value. Since players of these games are willing to substitute real economic resources of time and money (monthly fees) in exchange for these resources, by definition they have demonstrated utility to the user.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_subjectivism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value
But the above way of defining value is not the only one.

Value "in use" is the usefulness of this commodity, its utility. A classical paradox often comes up when considering this type of value. In the words of Adam Smith:

The word VALUE, it is to be observed, has two different meanings, and sometimes expresses the utility of some particular object, and sometimes the power of purchasing other goods which the possession of that object conveys. The one may be called 'value in use ;' the other, 'value in exchange.' The things which have the greatest value in use have frequently little or no value in exchange; and on the contrary, those which have the greatest value in exchange have frequently little or no value in use. Nothing is more useful than water: but it will purchase scarce any thing; scarce any thing can be had in exchange for it. A diamond, on the contrary, has scarce any value in use; but a very great quantity of other goods may frequently be had in exchange for it. (Wealth of Nations Book 1, chapter IV)

Value "in exchange" is the relative proportion with which this commodity exchanges for another commodity (in other words, its price in the case of money). It is relative to labor as explained by Adam Smith:

The value of any commodity, ... to the person who possesses it, and who means not to use or consume it himself, but to exchange it for other commodities, is equal to the quantity of labour which it enables him to purchase or command. Labour, therefore, is the real measure of the exchangeable value of all commodities (Wealth of Nations Book 1, chapter V; emphasis added).

Value (without qualification) as an intrinsic worth that stands without the process of exchange. Marx defined the value of the commodity by the third definition. In his terms, value is the 'socially necessary abstract labor' embodied in a commodity. In Ricardo and other classical economists, this definition serves as a measure of "real cost", "absolute value", or a "measure of value" invariable under changes in distribution and technology

The subjective theory of value supports the inference that all voluntary trade is mutually beneficial. An individual purchases a thing because he values it more than he values what he offers in trade; otherwise he wouldn't make the trade, but would keep the thing he values more highly. Likewise, the seller agrees to trade only if he values his good less than the price or good he receives. In a free market, both parties therefore enter the exchange in the belief that they will both receive more value than they give up.

In turn, this leads to a third important conclusion: the mere act of voluntary trade increases total wealth in society, where wealth is understood to refer to an individual's subjective valuation of all of his possessions. In contrast to intrinsic-value theories, which tend to support the conclusion either that wealth creation is impossible (zero-sum), or that wealth creation is possible only by the application of labor, the subjective-value theory holds that one can create value simply by transferring ownership of a thing to someone who values it more highly, without necessarily modifying that thing.

I've been playing for two years, that means my characters and items gained has a unique limitless value to me. which is why people try to sell their characters. I'm not suggesting a character sell/trade market. just items/crystal/gold alternated in any of those fashions. WITH proper limitations to prevent abuse. as there would be rules (no scams, investment schemes, buy sell then do chargeback etc)

After claiming that R2 is not able to develop anything on their own, unless the original CS made that, I fail to see how this could ever be implemented.

Never hurts to try if they are in contact with them since we get our stuff from them. would mean at some point there would have to be a exchange of information, or conference call type thing and discuss their business etc as any other business would do. :shrugs: I'm just not the type of person to not try. if that's not possible.
could always find someone who speaks Chinese to help translate the page then post it to their forum suggestion section&not make a big scene out of the links/posts on other sites. but in end, it'd prob be up to them if R2 can't- not promising anything.

[sebastian1988]

Yea, I just think it is really unlikely. Imo should always remind people that things like these have a really low chance to happen, so they won't put their expectations too high.
Besides that, R2 is selling items in their cash shop, but they wouldn't be able to compete against their own users.

e.g. No one would buy an EW pack in the cash shop, when players sell them for far less. So pretty much, R2 would only earn money with non-farmable items, which puts this game even closer to the point that working on it is not benefitial anymore. But guess a suggestion is a suggestion.

[ShadowGammaDraco]

Yea, I just think it is really unlikely. Imo should always remind people that things like these have a really low chance to happen, so they won't put their expectations too high.
Besides that, R2 is selling items in their cash shop, but they wouldn't be able to compete against their own users.

e.g. No one would buy an EW pack in the cash shop, when players sell them for far less. So pretty much, R2 would only earn money with non-farmable items, which puts this game even closer to the point that working on it is not benefitial anymore. But guess a suggestion is a suggestion.

the process for suggestions I go through the same as other players. so ya its not a promise. don't intend to get anyone's hopes up that it will be done. just to direct the desire that is something many players have asked for in many ways before. with some minor twists. players have wanted this before eternal saga was introduced, just using the picture as a example(the market feature in general). however the affiliate program might still exist as well. so its not like similar can't be done already just in other fashions(the programs methods).
kinda the point in a sense(no one buying a certain pack), with island of blessing and all. people can earn a bunch from island already, even if they were to be made bound. which don't think should be done. and not everyone can be around for island, so the trade of good items should be allowed. like Greater mount token packs, doubtful anyone would buy those. but if Greater mount tokens from island weren't bound and could be sold in a player market, R2 might actually have someone initiate a sale for what would be a better pack then offered normally. which has been a complaint of many cashers. possibly a limit could be done so not to devalue certain items to a break point. if want to do a random 1c sell that would be for private shops.

[sangofighter]

Well first r2 would need to fix their store, since they credit by game not via a universal credit like Maplestory's Nexon points which can credit all the games. Even if that happens r2 would need to set limits to send checks or credits to players. It usually like $2-$3 to send a check, so like minimum check to send would at least be like $20+. And what limits would there be for players, like $500 checks a month. I don't know diablo3 auction house system, but im sure there are limits.

[ShadowGammaDraco]

Well first r2 would need to fix their store, since they credit by game not via a universal credit like Maplestory's Nexon points which can credit all the games. Even if that happens r2 would need to set limits to send checks or credits to players. It usually like $2-$3 to send a check, so like minimum check to send would at least be like $20+. And what limits would there be for players, like $500 checks a month. I don't know diablo3 auction house system, but im sure there are limits.

ya they have it set up once a month must be at least 50$ for the affiliate program. think there is also a email somewhere to give R2 business suggestions or something as well

[MomoJay]

I understand you're trying to make the game better for all players, but I can't support more new stuff until they fix some of the old stuff. Until the disconnect issued is fixed in Island of Blessing I will protest on every thread and vote against every new idea or system. The CS world is like a house. The foundation was laid with the original events, bath, Sengolia, training ground, etc. The first floor was built with the first rebirth and the events that came after. A third floor was constructed with the second rebirth and the events that came after it. I feel the tree system is the start of a third floor, but the foundation is cracked. The honor system has been completely neglected causing the house to lean. The game still states there will only be 2 Emperors per server. I guess those guys don't work for r2 anymore. IoB could be a great PvP event if the disconnection problem is fixed and battle pot can be used. The market could use some improvement but its very low on the list of things that will make the game better.

[diablu]

umm ik what i am asking cant be implemented bcse its too much complication and work but stil
u could implemented a market where cross servers participate and limit the amount of servers participating so that new servers still stays balanced something like multiserver market where ppl of old servers may sell the stuff to the other servers and make money and viceversa.......... buying items in shop through crystals for buying and selling would be nice too but it is left for them to implement still this would be awesome if implemented O_O

[sangofighter]

Yeah saw that on Maplestory, new servers aren't allow to buy anything for sometime. There were also bans on certain things like weps and certain items. Overall, i liked that cross-server market system. However, the older servers would have an advantage as everything would be cheaper on their servers and would most likely profit more than the others.

[ragex0411]

This would be really cool, my server is unmerged, we have very few players with no merge insight, we dont got alot of items in circulation, this would really help.

[Blinq]

Gamma

Idea of implementing market is good but your method of application isnt suitable for CS. I mean crediting players with real life money would be same as those online gambling games. What could be done though is crediting players with just crystal, then again complications arises, as stated by seb.

As for the market system itself....


Note (Unbound Gold in eternal saga = crystal in CS)

Gear synthesis exclusive items are kept fully game based in Eternal saga, but other than that most of the other important items like enchant stones/pet enhancing items/refine stones/mount enhancing items are cash items exclusively unbound, while game based drops for them are bound. The only option open to get these drops as unbound is to be lucky at using Moonlight key ( participation award 110), which I must say, have a possibility of dropping something good in heaven is equal to spawning FL from 10 eggs. So as you can see, the devs in Eternal saga have given some thought on this. They have opened the access of getting rl cash based currency through ingame auction, but the important items are kept as bound and low quantity in game. Hence it puts a balance, The orange gears, high lvl synthesis bi products like Moon essence or amythest are made ingame exclusive, so players can make gold from them. However it takes some srs effort getting these items, and since it wont go for cheap, the younger players who quickly wants to succeed can only paypal gold to buy these from auction. Hence the game company makes money even from items that are game based drops. As for the high level players, they do make some free gold but surely it isnt enough for max level upgrade that only cashers can achieve in endgame.


Similar strat can be implemented in CS, but then we would need all the gmuts/ew etc to be full bound, no the matter the source ( TT, rb pack, av, iob). The Gear synth items maybe sold for good amount of crystal, right now most popular eb shards/gears. But gear synth in CS not as complicated compared to ES. Over there the substitute for ESD is amethyst and this can be obtained unbound from honor shop.

So you can see there is a vast difference between the two systems, and if r2 wants to implement this they would be whole lot of refurbishing. Make esd ingame drop only? Mmm i dont think the existing cashers would like that...

R2 can implement this system by putting a limit, say limit of putting items in Market is limited once a day per player, and price shouldnt be any lower than the Sale time price in Fate shop. But question is how does r2 benefit?


Offtopic, im very interested on this 'Refining Stone' system, that changes the green stats of your items randomly.Im sure this will be a very popular item in CS if implemented. Many of the pcs in our gears, like Purg or eb ring for rogue, have some stats which arent really that useful. At endgame, rogue can get 100% critical being semi naked with frag and sb only, hence having stats for critical simply useless. If there was an item which could give us the opportunity to randomly change specs of green stats in our gears till we like, then I think this can be a great product. Ofc to stop the useful stats from changing ( say the crit damage) can use something like the refine lock. Im very interested in this system and would be eager to see if r2 can make our CS devs release something similar.