This will surely balance the Archer in a Legal way..

[KnowingEyes7]

why will you use auto attack if you have rage to use skills.. ~_~ and besides, without DF , you have the chance to interrupt auto attack.. lol! Trying DF effect in that kind of situation is not significant.. Who the hell is that player against player that is not using any skill until its finish.. ~_~ You should try DF and your opponent should use skill.. there you will see if Df is working or not.. If its not , i think r2games should explain what is really the effect of DF in PVP.. Doest it really have effect? Or just a bluffs so that archer looks more tough.. =)

Not the point. The point was NOT if DF was useful or not. It was if it works... and it does. Don't dance.

[Unkn0wnX]

I tried to sustain armor piercer and for a 1 vs. 1 battle with lvl 60 pve set against a mage about 4k weaker than me, I lost if I try armor piercer way, I need a mage to heal in a group battle for that to even try to work or just have OP defenses plus it can easily countered by putting two in the back in a group battle. Poison arrow is still garbage. Ironic I have to rely on a mage to kill a mage with AP stack

[SirChuck]

Hi guys, i posted a thread about AP and IS not even seeing this discussion.

1. Onimad was kind enough to answer but I would like you get others input as well. What situations are AP and IS useful? What MP's? etc... I have already passed the Catacombs.

2. I am only level 56. Would you drop MS to level 3 to be able to add AP and IS for guild battle?

3. Has anyone tried using a maxed AP on WB and did you have better success that using Delphic?

thanks

[Selodaoc]

I also like that Knights and Mages try to tell Archers what to do on this topic..

DF not working against players actually playing is very bad and should get fixed

Ss is not working against most bosses

A fight dont last long enough to stack AP 5 times so yea...and your DPS will be lowered

[SuperMimi]

Not the point. The point was NOT if DF was useful or not. It was if it works... and it does. Don't dance.

Like i said , you test if DF is effective in pvp or not in wrong way? can't you get it? Why will try DF effect in force attack (normal atk) ? Ofc , if you not use any skill and just do normal attack , it will cause delay even if not using DF.. lol! You now can you get my point? =) If you will try if its working or not, try to hit DF in your opponet , in return let your opponent cast a skill , let see if he will be delay in 1 turn.. IF not , its not working but if it cause your opponent lose a 1 turn , then it is has effect.. =) so far its not working..

[KnowingEyes7]

Like i said , you test if DF is effective in pvp or not in wrong way? can't you get it? Why will try DF effect in force attack (normal atk) ? Ofc , if you not use any skill and just do normal attack , it will cause delay even if not using DF.. lol! You now can you get my point? =) If you will try if its working or not, try to hit DF in your opponet , in return let your opponent cast a skill , let see if he will be delay in 1 turn.. IF not , its not working but if it cause your opponent lose a 1 turn , then it is has effect.. =) so far its not working..

No. The original complaint was that DF didn't work. This means in concept that it did *nothing*. It actually DOES do something. Now you want to state that this wasn't its intention. This could be true - but, again, was not the original complaint.

Is DF useful? I still see Dink using it to unreal effect on even top players (in terms of crit damage and I even shudder) - so something may also be at play here. Ask him. He loves it.

[R26757419]

DF works only in cata/duel arena/MP bosses. It slows down "casting speed" and the QTE makes sense.
Vs PLAYERS it doesn't slow down anything period. The QTE here DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
Probably if it works its too powerful (for 35 rage is not cheap aswell), but nobody can say that work.
Its easy to understand that...

Slowing down AUTO ATTACK? Who does want to slow down Auto ATTACK? Nobody uses Auto Attack...
In Duel Arena, u fight AI, which ALL knows from AFK WB, that has the fastest casting speed possible, yet u gain a turn while the AI is freezed.
OTOH if the AI in DUEL ARENA, casts DF on you, you won't be affected by it. In fact if you casts DF after AI's DF, u'll gain a turn.
This simply mean that is bugged in some way.

Knowingeyes as usual u don't know what are u talking about (LOL),the fact that dink uses it doesn't prove anything. Don't say that like it matter. On the contrary, Considering u're talking about the strongest player in the server. Which EVERYBODY know that mean top CASHER, which mean MORE POWER, which doesn't mean he's a GOOD PLAYER or the MOST SKILLED ONE. So Dink hardly can be taken into consideration as an example, he will RARELY find himself in NEED of something MORE.. like DF working properly...

I'll tell you why EVERYBODY use DF:
THE PROBLEM SO FAR ARE THE SKILL POINT

IN PVP-For damage dealing (AIMED AT back row) OBVIOUSLY make much more sense using AP 3 instead (with a working QTE), but having AP3 + lun.lvl4 require lvl 72 at least (only passive skills, without having any skill point on scattershoot, or bloodthirsty OR ANY OTHER SKILL). For those who has double skill, at lvl 72 can be done.

And in our server Max lvl is 71 so far. This is why many TARGET back row with DF in PVP. Simply because everybody will prefer Lunatic fire lvl4 maxed over AP maxed
In BG no archer use AS-DF except if opponent really has low life. While in GA using DF on a mage in backrow, could be helpful, cause that mage will proobably became the target of Ultimater slasher.
STILL DF DON'T SLOW DOWN ANYTHING.

MAXED SKILLS DOES THAT
DF LVL 4 179%+390 dmg and QTE that doesn't work in adding +1 turn to the slow cast buff
AP LVL3 175%+390, with a QTE that works which mean 218% ish, plus the buff of lowering the pdef. And cd 1 sec.
LUN. FIRE LVL4 134% AOE, plus QTE 25% which mean 167% ish AOE.

It's easy to see why people go for lunatic in PVP. Without even mentioning the fact that AP is a single hit so u can take back MAX 5 rage from it. While if Lunatic does 2-3 crit u'll find yourself with 10-15 rage.

ALL THAT BTW, Doesn't change the fact that DF DONT WORK ON PLAYERS.
In the END archers while they keep lvling till almost endgame, are forced to use 2 BUGGED SKILLS (BT and DF)

About Archers gaining Double attacks (rarely), happen for 2 reason:
1-In the case that the opponent is really slow, casting the skill just a moment before Auto attack start
2-In the case he/she need the rage from the last attack, to perform the next one (a slow casting one btw, don't happen with every skill), when the rage goes into the pot, "that time" loss and the longer casting speed of next skill cause double attack. (but only if archer is using AS or MS). But it's not a constant,more than a mistake of the opponent.. so no archer really rely on that.

Talking about Same Power, the story about mages>knight>archer endS when the archer can't slow down mages AOE spam. And just hope to crit to be able to lunatic fast, and see what to do next.
DF in SKILL TREE, is important as MS, but doesn't work and need 35 rage. Not fair.
If u choose not to go for df tree, u find Scattershoot(great) or BT (bugged also) waiting..
That's why top1 players can't be taken as example in here, where not every archer has the kind of power to overtake mages same lvl. Before having less than half hp. And thats why MOST mages don't care only about PDEF as they should,
Losing vs knight it's not a problem archer have to face, it's the rule.And doesn't seem that anybody disagree with that.

I see archer have better time vs wb, i would gladly lose the wb advantage in order to have working DF.

[KnowingEyes7]

{lots of hot air snipped**

Oh Squall. You have to run to R2 forums to try and slander? You just complain because you're a NON CASHER and you get destroyed by the top players.

There's no way DF will be made to slow down everyone via every attack type. Not for its current rage consumption. If they alter that, they had better compensate for the other classes a tad.

[infernal13]

It's always funny to see ppl whining about whiners, i mean the first 4 posts (including OP) raised legitimate issues with archer, wasn't a "whine" of any kind (unless you consider asking for a fix a whine then i dunno what to say), then 1 guy mentioned archer vs mage and a diarrhea of "lolol look at dem archerz whining!" came (not all ofc), whatever happened to don't feed the troll?

please guys stick to the topic.

on topic, DF should work on skills as well as auto-attacks, it works on bosses and they do different attacks/skills, the skill info states "reduces casting speed", so yeah, DF needs a fix or them stating that it works correctly and change the skill info, i don't understand why ppl are even arguing that.

[R26757419]

I come here to see hoping not to ready you anymore, but you are evrywhere in every post.

U said there's no way DF will be made to slow down everyone. Surprise, that was the "original complaint" it took you like many reply to say it.
And telling a guy that DF slow down auto attack, u think that help the conversation/complaint?
So silly. U better shut up rather than spamming if thats the best u can do.

[KnowingEyes7]

I come here to see hoping not to ready you anymore, but you are evrywhere in every post.

U said there's no way DF will be made to slow down everyone. Surprise, that was the "original complaint" it took you like many reply to say it.
And telling a guy that DF slow down auto attack, u think that help the conversation/complaint?
So silly. U better shut up rather than spamming if thats the best u can do.

Better stick to your native language, it's getting more difficult to understand you.

One of the original complaints was DF seemingly did nothing. It *DOES*. I am not saying it's useful or it was intended that way. Good Lord, man. Additionally, the game is mostly burst damage oriented. Archers excel in that area - and therefore in most areas of the game. Now you want DF to slow everyone else down on top of that? No way... unless the rage cost is heightened considerably.

Come back to Kong. You're making us look bad.

[R26757419]

The Original complain, not "one of.. its only one" came from Supermimi. He tryed to explain to you that. You wouldn't listen.
Archers that complain about DF, its ONLY because it works different. Thats all. So saying that it does something that will never help, its like saying it does nothing at all. Thx for your keen insight btw.

The fact that archers excel on WB, is completely off topic HERE.
If you want to complain about that, open a new thread about that.
Yeah my english isn't good, at least i don't spam around like you do.

[KnowingEyes7]

The Original complain, not "one of.. its only one" came from Supermimi. He tryed to explain to you that. You wouldn't listen.
Archers that complain about DF, its ONLY because it works different. Thats all. So saying that it does something that will never help, its like saying it does nothing at all. Thx for your keen insight btw.

The fact that archers excel on WB, is completely off topic HERE.
If you want to complain about that, open a new thread about that.
Yeah my english isn't good, at least i don't spam around like you do.

Why don't you read what SinnedWill stated about DF and how to use the class.

[Unkn0wnX]

Why don't you read what SinnedWill stated about DF and how to use the class.

You will not win doing what sinner said, it is so easy to counter that if you are truly concerned about an archer's DF skill
1. 1 vs. 1 - spam aoe, kill troops in 2 turns, if an archer wants to use DF then he will lose just as much turns as a mage by taking the time killing the troops afterwards instead of finish them with lunatic so it isn't worth using the skill, or just do not auto attack if an archer uses it after lunatic
2. Group Setting - Waste of rage, just hope it is only the mage in the back row without an archer in back row too for GA, you lose a turn yourself damage-wise because you didn't aoe them with lunatic so less damage done overall to the group, meanwhile they will slam you with their attacks so good luck surviving if you are one of the many that do not have legendary lvl 60 armor
DF is garbage for pvp, play the class at a high level, you lose just as much turns when you decide to cast it, I haven't heard a high level archer ever say the class or DF was meant to counter a mage so until I do I do...

[R26092269]

I haven't heard a high level archer ever say the class or DF was meant to counter a mage so until I do I do...

Thats what i asked earlier in the post, im still waiting for a high lvl archer to give a positive opinion on PA, AP and DF like it has been said here...
I mean, mages and knights telling archers how to play is nice and all, but doesnt seem to me that they know what they re talking about..