Rogue Saga (Crystal Saga-Reloaded)

[Lightlord01]

seems to me this whole post is geared towards rogues ability to do events rather then the events not being tailored to to be fair to all classes. which i agree i do have an advantage, but the question remains how do you design an event that is class balanced?
make event mobs hit harder? but that would cater to knights/ priests... anyways you see my line of thought here. <---may lead more to requiring a party to complete said events.

the last event of note, had one of our more active players create an army of noob rogues, and put 2 at each event boss spawn point - to my surprise 2 noob rouges vs me won out every time!!!! dirty tactic maybe, but it shows ingenuity on how to balance the playing field.

as for the lvl 120 agi stats being handicapped per lvl gained, i have found that the higher lvl gear can balance that out again - 130% crit, 260+ attack speed, and 114% dodge rate (which i missed so much)

My thinking is that to make all events neutral is close to impossible.

Here are the dilemas..you cant focus on just class neutrality. You have to adopt of development neutraility events as well.

No matter what you do..one class will receive an advantage or disadvantage. So why fight the laws of math. Design events that yes the knight class the advantage in this event..another where a priest has the advantage etc etc.

Make events that are noob/lowby friendly because alienating your future players is never a good idea. or they dont become future player. We have seen this with different level tiers in other events. But the weekly events forget or exclude these as a rule of thumb.

[Dode.]

i can see soooo many probs with a class specific event rotation, the bishing would be epic!

[R22057192]

I play a ranger and do well in most events. I don't see rogues dominating much on my server.

[Helldemon83]

Hellstorm:Rogue
(Hell Storm....... A game of survival note rogues cant use Stealth so we cant stun unless we are combat ( Knight (Tank DPS)> Combat Rogue (Stun/Dodge) >Ranger (Ranged DPS)>Mage (One SHOTS FTW), Stealth Rogue (DPS/ Dodge) > Priest)

Rogues can stealth in Hellstorm, I see them do it all the time. There is a rogue that has won the 80 below Hellstorm for about a month straight now. The solution to Bosses like crypt and snowmen for the most part is to halve the damage rogue do per hit so that puts them on par with other jobs. They still have a 15% attack speed boost skill that gives them a advantage over others so it's just a matter of having gear/soul to increase it over the rogues

[Stigmata]

Rogues can stealth in Hellstorm, I see them do it all the time. There is a rogue that has won the 80 below Hellstorm for about a month straight now. The solution to Bosses like crypt and snowmen for the most part is to halve the damage rogue do per hit so that puts them on par with other jobs. They still have a 15% attack speed boost skill that gives them a advantage over others so it's just a matter of having gear/soul to increase it over the rogues

There is... Please tell me how, because I am tired of being stun locked because I cant stun back or do what my class does best at all

[mhanth4f]

Im a pretty flexible person. But enough is enough.

This isnt the ravings of a lv30ish noob mortal.

Im a top notch mage Lv120 Eiddy that can muster 90-100k matk upto 75% phy dmg redux and 40k+ pdef and 50k mdef with over 200% casting speed and close to the 4th soul aura. As well as a ap crystal spender and very active player since the beginning.

Yes, Im talking end game mechanics, here

$5 and having mostly +14 gear Legendary Purgurtory gear, get? a cup of coffee

The game imbalance toward rogues has hit its apex.

There isnt a need to be any other class.

Virtually every daily event is slanted toward rogues.

Virtually every weekly event that involves killing something is slanted toward rogues. Every weekly event that involves moving to one location or another is slanted toward rogues.

The recent frag changes have just nerfed every class by 10 fold to rogues.

Rogues who couldnt break 300-500mil in avernal now do 3-4+ billion in damage?

There are 4 events that dont give rogues a major advantage:

The game isnt about who has the best character anymore..its all about who has the fastest rogue in movement speed and Atk Speed.

Def/Attack/Gear all take a backseat to those factor

The only skills that seem to matter are stealth, and skills/bless that improve attack speed and/or movement.

Delivery: Rogue
Escort: Rogue
Plunder: Rogue
Blessed Bath:Priest
Redemption: Rogue
Training Grounds: Rogue
Dungeons: Rogue
Seed of Life: Neutral
Crypt: Rogue
Guessing Game: Neutral
Avernal Realms: Rogue
Gator: Rogue
Hellstorm:Rogue
World Bosses and RB Quests Rogue
Chambers of Fate Rogue
Sengola Rogue
Dragonspine Rogue
Nimbus: Rogue
LandGrab: Rogue
Survival of the fittest:Neutral
Tamalan: Neutral


I have one message to aeria and R2. There are allot of games to play in the market now, allot of great games. Balance this or loose players


LL

THIS!
its just too OP

[Stigmata]

THIS! [ATTACH=CONFIG]35464[/ATTACH]
its just too OP [ATTACH=CONFIG]35465[/ATTACH]

wowowow before this gets to out of hand i do realize that i can hit 5.5billion but im not the only class that can. On my server i have had Rangers and mages keep up with me. The Ranger was even like 1 proc from beating me. So before MY WEAPONS get debuffed even more..... About all the other classes that can put up a pretty even fight.... end game most peoples Stats are about the same yet MY PROCS are being threatened to be cut in half.... How does that work out 300% Attack speed vs 310% attack speed and my stuff gets cut in half because i am 3% total faster then you..... 3% more attacks does not = 50% damage reduction.....

Rogues have:
The Least health
The Least Def
The Least Mitigation
The Least Damage (before crit)
The only class that cant pull or range enemies down
The only class that doesnt have an extended invulnerable skill (1 sec is a joke every 35 sec)
The only class that requires dodge to survive but this game supercharges HIT which is a direct counter to dodge.... I have 90% dodge but the people IM trying to kill have 60%+ so im only dodging 30%- of the time yet i cant bypass the 75% mitigation a Knight has... How does one see that as far?

And some of the most !@#$ed up mechanics in the game
Do you know what its like to chase a guy that you finally get in range of cast a skill to hit him and as hes moving he is no longer in range and your skill goes off and wastes CD but doesnt hit or have any interaction.
Do you know what its like to be the only class that has multiple prerequisites to use a stun (Stealth => stun) or (Line attack => line attack => stun)
To have a game that does everything Humanly possible to knock you out of stealth when ever possible...AoE's random debuffs from the game or hell even the game not letting you go into stealth....
To have a game that makes you fight yourself.... If i attack to quickly Soul Buff Forgivness (20% chance to clear debuffs) within 1 sec all my debuffs are gone making my stuns dots armor debuff all useless after 1 sec... if you arent dead within 5 attacks im f'ed. I mean attack speed and crit is good and all but when you can only take 1 hit and you are dead what good is attack speed.

I mean come on how much more do you guys what to take from us. Because at this point I am not seeing much that is left.....

So if you want us to get debuffed even more give me one darn good reason other than us being the best in like 1 or 2 events out of 20....

Next Update by Popular demand:
Rogues Reduced to Nothingness:
Every class gets +100% hit
Every Class gets 9999 crit defense

Just 2 chages.... 2 and 2 alone would make Rogues 100% useless
Hell you really only need 1 really the game already gives you enough Hit

[erindkoci]

Come to our server and you'll the rangers and tanks that steal everything from rogues. I mean just because rogue have high crit doesnt mean anything. I have low crit and do 200k+ in seng with SS. Why lower rogue attri its not even fair to the slightest jsut because they can stealth. You are a mage and who knows how much DMG you do with flame burst on crit, and thats like x3 the health of the rogue you just killed with a crit.

[Stigmata]

Hey just thought I would Pop in with some proof of how much ** this thread is....

For those that cant read it:

1. (S33)Stigmata 3,521,009K (Rogue)
2. (S45)EliteNahL 3,137957K (Ranger)
3. (S45)EliteKyle 2,165,900K (Knight)
4. (S40)BossKYLE 2,003,658K (Ranger)
5. (S54)frogzz 1,996,045K (Ranger)
6. (S33)Nabby 1,248,747K (Knight)
7. (S33)tooo000 1,178,249K (Priest)
8. (S33)Ambulanc 580,788K (Priest)

And you idiots want to cut my Proc chance in half I bust my butt to get as high of Attack speed as possible and they guys are still catching up.
Hell even NahL was keeping toe to toe with me (was even beating me until i got a lucky proc streak).
If my Proc rate was cut in half I would be dropped down to about 40% of my current damage (reason being less proc chance = less chance of hitting him at full health = less damage). This would be about 1,408,403k damage meaning 3 rangers and a Knight would beat me.... a knight that already has the best survivability in the game beating a rogue in damage. And to make matters worse I focus on attack speed between my Sperion, Broken Seal and Gems. My build is meant for fast attack speed and yet these guys are keeping up. And I know they arent trying to go for max attack speed like me.

So you know what dont give me this ** about Rogues need to be nerfed because they have fast attack speed i call **** ** every class but preist has a way to increase atkspd and cstspd.

So in counter to your lets nerf rogues i say
"Hey let us let rogues do their darn job and un-nerf the 50% nerfs on the rest of the frag. I mean from the stats above it doesnt look like rogues are 200% as powerful every other class so why the Hell should we be cut in half...."

[(S14)Squintina]

Hey just thought I would Pop in with some proof of how much ** this thread is....
[ATTACH=CONFIG]35490[/ATTACH]
For those that cant read it:

1. (S33)Stigmata 3,521,009K (Rogue)
2. (S45)EliteNahL 3,137957K (Ranger)
3. (S45)EliteKyle 2,165,900K (Knight)
4. (S40)BossKYLE 2,003,658K (Ranger)
5. (S54)frogzz 1,996,045K (Ranger)
6. (S33)Nabby 1,248,747K (Knight)
7. (S33)tooo000 1,178,249K (Priest)
8. (S33)Ambulanc 580,788K (Priest)

And you idiots want to cut my Proc chance in half I bust my butt to get as high of Attack speed as possible and they guys are still catching up.
Hell even NahL was keeping toe to toe with me (was even beating me until i got a lucky proc streak).
If my Proc rate was cut in half I would be dropped down to about 40% of my current damage (reason being less proc chance = less chance of hitting him at full health = less damage). This would be about 1,408,403k damage meaning 3 rangers and a Knight would beat me.... a knight that already has the best survivability in the game beating a rogue in damage. And to make matters worse I focus on attack speed between my Sperion, Broken Seal and Gems. My build is meant for fast attack speed and yet these guys are keeping up. And I know they arent trying to go for max attack speed like me.

So you know what dont give me this ** about Rogues need to be nerfed because they have fast attack speed i call **** ** every class but preist has a way to increase atkspd and cstspd.

So in counter to your lets nerf rogues i say
"Hey let us let rogues do their darn job and un-nerf the 50% nerfs on the rest of the frag. I mean from the stats above it doesnt look like rogues are 200% as powerful every other class so why the Hell should we be cut in half...."

I don't have a screenshot because it was a few day ago and I don't go to avernal on a regular basis and I didn't think about screenshotting it but I can tell you in my server, a level 80+ scion rogue with midsoul (~700), decent gear, perfect frag 1 (I think it was +7) and flawless gems managed to beat out level 120 eidolon people who have 1200+ and 1500+ soul, perfect frag I or perfect frag II also with good enchants, orange gear with much higher enchants and immaculate gems and really good pets - but they weren't rogues. So idk why you're having a hard time keeping up but well, the imbalance does show up in other servers >.>

Edit: is your computer laggy or something as that does affect attack speed?

[Stigmata]

Nah i usually dont lag. I would say it is from the looks of it, on the forum comments, most rogues are getting between 3Bill damage and 4Bill damage. When i went crazy and actually tired to break the system i made 5 bill but everyone else could also do the same. I had it timed out so i was Hitting each Bane as it respawned to get the full hit out of it.

[R21974058]

i actually play in aeria server but honestly ur rogue aint really anything compare to ours. no offence bro. if u have a chance and see our "not really high end" rogue i believe u will reconsider all those u say.

[Blinq]

Rogues can stealth in Hellstorm, I see them do it all the time. There is a rogue that has won the 80 below Hellstorm for about a month straight now. The solution to Bosses like crypt and snowmen for the most part is to halve the damage rogue do per hit so that puts them on par with other jobs. They still have a 15% attack speed boost skill that gives them a advantage over others so it's just a matter of having gear/soul to increase it over the rogues

There is... Please tell me how, because I am tired of being stun locked because I cant stun back or do what my class does best at all

Stealthing in HS is possible with shadow strike. Personally, as a rogue, i think this is unfair and perhaps a mistake from the devs. This skill should be disabled too, since it gives rogues even the lowerbies an unfair advantage.

On the other hand though, 15% attk speed from passive doesnt help us that much. Easy demonstration, difference of dps between normal light 5 and sb light 5.

I don't have a screenshot because it was a few day ago and I don't go to avernal on a regular basis and I didn't think about screenshotting it but I can tell you in my server, a level 80+ scion rogue with midsoul (~700), decent gear, perfect frag 1 (I think it was +7) and flawless gems managed to beat out level 120 eidolon people who have 1200+ and 1500+ soul, perfect frag I or perfect frag II also with good enchants, orange gear with much higher enchants and immaculate gems and really good pets - but they weren't rogues. So idk why you're having a hard time keeping up but well, the imbalance does show up in other servers >.>

Edit: is your computer laggy or something as that does affect attack speed?

Offtopic but thought id make it sure...

Have seen countless examples of people with lower soul progress beating ppl with higher. Soul progress doesnt mean anything, what matters is exactly what you are progressing on. Example, in void soul, L10 deftness eats 320 SS, but before that you need to max Simplicity (L10 of which eats another 128 SS). The resultant progress from those 2 clicks would be very minimal, not even 50. On the other hand, 428 SS can be used on cheap clicks and gain significant amount of soul progress, but that wouldnt mean anything cause the cheap clicks will not be able measure up to the massive boost ppl will get from just those 2 clicks of deft n simp.

As i mentioned on the first qoute, that the extra 15% attk speed doesnt make any difference, keeping that in mind, everything else is a fair game. Knight can easily catch up to the attack speed that a rogue attains, with right equips, soul and buff and sperion. Rogues hit twice, yes, but our damage is halved when we hit, and comparing the damage between full agi rogues with full str knights/full int mages ofc is like Only place this 2 hit ability affects is in avernal and in some boss fights, cause of the proc from china frag, even so, in terms of single hit damage, knights and mages way better. And this new passive in pvp, we rogues cant even dodge, even if we dodge the primary hit. Now how cool is that o.o

Furthermore, eventhough light sb doesnt affect mage casting speed, it does affect mage normal hits ( also for priests)... a point to think about.

[Stigmata]

Im not saying im high end... Just saying people of equivalent level/Gear/Soul are keeping up with me.

So, consequently the only thought that comes to mind is that end game it isnt going to be much different:
Everyone has the same buff, souls, sperion, gear, weapon, mount, gems. The only difference is Class skills. And even then every class has speed boost (that i know of I know rangers and mages due atleast pretty sure knight do too) so what makes rogue so different other then 20-30% extra attack speed?

Hell end game I am seeing a end game rogue with 300% attack speed no Sperion buff so what a Ranger might have 280% attack speed? So i attack every .26 sec while they attack every .28 sec... big whoop.... over the course of 30 minutes 6923 attacks for the rogue and the ranger gets 6428 attacks? over the course of 30 min I get 495 extra attacks thats 107.7% of your attacks and that calls for me to get a 50% reduction in proc rate like everything else on the Frag?

Or we can look at it another way (Using Perfect I 5% proc rate... Because you know I am low end here). Of those 6923 rogue attacks ~346 procs/30 min, Of the 6428 ranger attacks ~321 procs/30min. That is 25 extra procs to the rogue.... Now lets cut the Rogues chance rate in half like the forum wants ~173 procs/30min.....

Hot darn now the ranger gets 148 extra procs.... Well that doesnt seem fair. I think it was a bit more even when the rogue was only up by 7.7% extra procs on the ranger now after the New and "Improved Forum Revision (All terms used very very very...etc loosely)" the ranger is up 85% procs on the rogue...

I dont know is it me or dont you think that number should be as close as possible to 0% and instead you guys want to pass 0% and go up the other side 85% for a whooping 92.7% change between two classes.

I mean I may be totally wrong here but I have seen no numbers, no proof, no comparison to anyone, no nothing as to why a rogue should be nerfed again, other than People say Rogues are so OP there is some Noob thats kicking my Butt.... Well to be truthful if a noob already has a Perfect and your having issues maybe you should reevaluate your definition of "Noob". I have gone 360 level and still having issues getting past Perfect II (Between all the FS and DS there is no way a noob can get it.. 300+FS and countless DS at 25+g each).

So please by all means give me something to look at.
I am sick of looking at walls of text that don't explain any reason as to why rogues are so superior to every other class in apparently everything.

Edit: Oh wait sorry I lied OP said Priests are better at bath.... My bad

[Botolminum]

roflol, Stigmata, I just came to your server to check things out, kyle and nahl has MUCH better stats / equips than you, and you're only using gryphon too with pretty standard attack and stuff... and yet you managed to came out as first, I think you've pretty much proved yourself wrong there ?

Another facts, he is using perfect 1, while nahl and kyle are using 3 and 4, ok so rogues get 15 % more atk speed, but I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY DOUBT that your soul wins them, so they have the advantage of having more atk speed in soul, so maybe like 10 % atk speed difference.

Anyway, do I need to show people screenshots of S6 mage vs rogues ? Mage has 155-160 k matk, rogue has around 45-47 k patk , mage gets around 3.5-4 billion damage, rogue gets 6 billion damage , mage has 264 % atk speed, rogue has 269 % atk speed. Both 100 % crit chance.

I'm not saying nerf rogue or anything though, just need to fix the bug in avernal. If it's not a bug, then firelord's burn should count, blood breaking kill hp reduce should count too.