Improved Slayer's Deftness - Worth it at all?

[sebastian1988]

Hi,

I'm thinking about doing a minor change in my build. I feel disappointed about Improved Slayer's Deftness.

Slayer's Deftness when maxed: +10% dodge
Improved Slayer's Deftness when maxed: +180 dodge rate

As far as I know, 180 dodge rate is about 2% dodge increase. (for lvl 100)

Now to think about it..

I went full str and only got my agi from gear and soul. With light selfbuff, fragarach sup VII, I'm no Bird title and scion buffs, my dodge rate is 99%.
I need around 95% dodge rate to be able to dodge all mobs in ladder with my 50% vagabond increase. I assume that ladder mobs have roughly 45% hitrate.

In PvP .. well, slayers gloves, slayers necklace, enhanced control guild skill, scion buffs, light blessing, clothes.. It is easy to hit 70%+ hitrate.
No matter how I look at it, even with 99% dodge, 70% hitrates only lets me dodge for 29% and that alone is only a chance.

So instead of wasting 5 whole points on a skill that gives me 2% dodge, I could keep it at lvl 1 or dont take it at all and use the skillpoints to get more dps picking shadow and combat master skills.
I want to hear some opinions of rogues about that skill. Unless I know that those 2% make a major difference, it feels like wasting..

I'm level 100 eidolon, full str combat rogue with enough crit to be at 100% with slayer's call being level 1.
The only attack skills that I have maxed are Invincibility, Decimation and Blade Twist. All others are kept level 1.
Most of my skill points went into passives. Seeing how the shadow master skills give a huge attack increase of about 1k dmg, combined with my high crit damage, I can imagine that it is totally worth a shot to go for them instead of 2% dodge. (at least for avernal)

opinions?

[nabeschin]

Nice topic!

Well, i'm lv.67 Scion, pure STR, Shadow with passive skills from the Combat branch.
At my level, 100% dodge would be somewhere close to 2464; so 180 points = 7% dodge.

Looking at your toon, you have 3008 (73%) dodge. For a lv.100 Eidolon like you, 100% dodge would be somewhere close to 4120; in your case, 180 points = 4% dodge.

I may be wrong, but i found out that % is level related.

In your case, at your level with your gear and stats, Improved Slayer's Deftness gives 4% dodge.

I think 1k damage > 4% dodge, you should give it a try.

[sebastian1988]

Nah, pretty sure that it is only 2% dodge. I have tested it already.
I already changed my build and am curious about my dps in avernal now.

If 180 dodgerate would be 4% then Slayer's Cap 960 dodge rate would add like 21% dodge lol.
I'm using many equips that give +dodge % and the I'm no Bird title, that's why it doesnt equal 4%

I think that the higher my agi is, the less % will I get from dodgerate.

I just tested it without and with scion buffs.
Without Scion Buff 960 dodgerate equals 10% dodge for me.
With Scion Buffs 960 dodgerate equals 7% dodge for me.

At this rate.. if I would work more on my agi, the benefit of 180 dodgerate would even drop!
So our improved version of a skill is adding like 1/10 of the bonus the non-improved would give.

It's decided for me, not wasting 5 pts

PS: That toon in my signature is not up to date

[nabeschin]

Nah, pretty sure that it is only 2% dodge. I have tested it already.
I already changed my build and am curious about my dps in avernal now.

If 180 dodgerate would be 4% then Slayer's Cap 960 dodge rate would add like 21% dodge lol.
I'm using many equips that give +dodge % and the I'm no Bird title, that's why it doesnt equal 4%

I think that the higher my agi is, the less % will I get from dodgerate.

I just tested it without and with scion buffs.
Without Scion Buff 960 dodgerate equals 10% dodge for me.
With Scion Buffs 960 dodgerate equals 7% dodge for me.

At this rate.. if I would work more on my agi, the benefit of 180 dodgerate would even drop!
So our improved version of a skill is adding like 1/10 of the bonus the non-improved would give.

It's decided for me, not wasting 5 pts

PS: That toon in my signature is not up to date

Are you going to change your stat points? Wondering if pure AGI is a good build for high-end Rogues.
Also thanks for the infos!

[sebastian1988]

Are you going to change your stat points? Wondering if pure AGI is a good build for high-end Rogues.
Also thanks for the infos!

Nah, I'll stay full str for now.
I think it is really easy to reach 100%+ crit with a full str base distribution (even with slayer's call at only lvl 1/5).

So the only benefit of agi are a few more % dodge. There is a full agi rogue on my server and he is really weak. His dodge doesn't help him to kill players.
When they add the level 100 PvP set, the new gloves and the new necklace will mostlikely give a ton of extra hitrate. Dodge is getting less and less useful.

I'm not sure how high the dodgerate of a full agi rogue with almost all agility nodes maxed is, but there is no way to dodge all hits and taking down your opponent (especially knights) is really hard if you can't pull off the patk.

I saw a really well build rogue, Dode, full agility but most of his patk comes from his wings. I'm not sure how many hits he can dodge but I know that I won't be anywhere close to his dodge unless they do ladder quests on a regular basis. just too many soulshards required and I don't feel like cashing them.

And I'm starting to bale on my fragarach dagger. The reason for that is that the newly released sperions have gem combos that favor atk speed. The extra dodge of fragarach sure is nice but the gem combo triggers more often when using slayers dagger.

[nabeschin]

And I'm starting to bale on my fragarach dagger. The reason for that is that the newly released sperions have gem combos that favor atk speed. The extra dodge of fragarach sure is nice but the gem combo triggers more often when using slayers dagger.

Do you know the cooldown of Demonic Gift? Just wondering.
And how you know that skills triggers more often using Slayers Dagger?

[sebastian1988]

Demonic Gift has no cooldown. More atk speed means that you are dealing more hits.
Each hit has a % chance to trigger the sperion gem combo.

Example:
Level 7 Sperion Gems have a 7% chance when attacking to trigger Demonic Gift 7.
Effect is 2 seconds of 210% extra atk/cast speed.

In those 2 seconds with extra atkspeed you can luck out again at those 7% and trgger Demonic Gift again. (Another 2 seconds buff)
And in those 2 seconds you can trigger it again etc.

For my toon with roughly 240% atkspeed, that takes me up to 450% atk speed for 2 seconds.
That is quite a lot of hits, also triggering frost almost all the time.

So my build right now is focused on everything that gives atkspeed. Slayers Dagger, Slayers Ring, Netheran Gloves, Olympic Insignia, Ladder Master Title, etc.
The max fragarach upgrades will have 20% atk/cast speed someday, but until these are released, the dps with Slayer's Dagger is always better.

Btw. I tested my stats with Improved Deftness lvl 0 + Scion Buffs lvl 6. The difference is only 1% dodge, not worth giving 5 skillpoints for that