Game Mechanics - Blood Beam calculations does not compute

[sithewarrior]

Just ran some numbers comparing dmg/stats with blood beam and my friend's damage DOES NOT compute properly at all

btw we both had 100% crit rate

My stats:
320% crit dmg
52404 m.atk
262329 hp

Her stats:
344% crit dmg
124455 m.atk
870165 hp

My average blood beam dmg ~ 200k crits
her average dmg ~ 630k crits

Blood beam calculates dmg as follows:
(0.8*m.atk + 0.045*hp) * crit dmg%
using lv 5 blood beam, ignoring the bonus dmg as it is negligible.
(Note she has lv 5 basic blood beam while I was using lv5 master blood beam)

Calculations:
my theoretical dmg:
(0.8*52404 + 262329*0.045) * 3.20
=(41923.2+11804.805)*3.2
=53728.005*3.20
=171929.616 =/=200k --> ~14% error
Conclusion, atk ratio is incorrect
Hypothesis, atk ratio is actually 100%
(52404 + 262329*0.045) * 3.20 = 205468.176 -->2.7% error this may be more accurate due to mobs unknown def/red

Her theoretical dmg
(0.8*124455 + 870165*0.045) * 3.44
(99564+ 39157.425) * 3.44
138721.425 * 3.44
=477201.702 --> 24.3% error
Reverse calculations with 630k:
630000/3.44 = 183139.534
183139 - 870165 *0.045 = 143982.1098 m.atk
If atk ratio was 80%: her m.atk would have to be 143982.1/0.8 = 179977.637
which doesn't make sense at all since her m.atk is no where near that, and even with 100% ratio, there's still 20k unaccounted m.atk

Theory: Basic blood beam has glitched mechanics that make it have a higher atk ratio at higher level skills than it should while blood beam atks in general have an 100% atk ratio (this part I've believed to be true for months as I've tested the numbers before). Using Basic blood beam level 1 shows consistent numbers therefore lv 5 may be glitched. Cannot test due to lack of sands of time. Will test on a new alt soon.

If anyone can shed light on this mystery, it would be much appreciated.

Note: I have seen her stats in a screen shot so I can confirm the numbers but she does not want me to post them.

UPDATE: Level 5 basic blood beam is indefinitely stronger than Improved and master counter parts. Though, with my numbers its 110% atk ratio
UPDATE: With an alt, numbers show atk ratio of 130% which leads me to believe the HP ratio also changed with basic blood beams level.
UPDATE: blood pact also shows some inconsistent numbers as lv 5 improved did more than basic even after crit dmg and bonus dmg. It's likely that the HP% ratio is incorrect on bp skills if atk ratio is correct. Not gonna bother testing bc I don't want to go through the math anymore as its a two variable problem.

[PrinceKuja]

ok we all know this game is totally broken. and very few things work properly. dont expect a proper answer from R2 lol but im sure many ppl will love to talk about it with you. and oh yeah, they wont fix it either. just the impression im getting based on what i see on forum. cheers

[(S14)Squintina]

You're not doing the math right. Crit damage isn't a direct multiplier. It's extra damage.

So it's not (0.8*matk+4.5%*hp)*320%.

It's actually (0.8*matk+4.5%*hp) normal damage + (0.8*matk+4.5%*hp)*320% extra damage from crit.

In other words, you add another 100% to make it (0.8*matk+4.5%*hp)*420%.

I did the calculations (including the bonus damage from the skill that you ignored). Yours comes out to 232,159.2 and hers comes out to 616,518.1. Now remember that's max damage and you only get the full if you have a lucky strike. However, without a lucky strike the numbers should still be relatively the same - just not quite as high. Hence why you get about 200k and she gets about 600k.

[sithewarrior]

You're not doing the math right. Crit damage isn't a direct multiplier. It's extra damage.

That I did not know which makes a lot more sense now except basic blood beam does more dmg than master blood beam. =_= just like basic > improved spirit infusion lol

[(S14)Squintina]

That I did not know which makes a lot more sense now except basic blood beam does more dmg than master blood beam. =_= just like basic > improved spirit infusion lol

No it doesn't. All the skills properly get stronger. There are plenty of things wrong in CS; this is not one of them.

You with BB5 crit damage: 226,220
You with MBB5 crit damage: 232,159

Your friend with BB5 crit damage: 616,518
Your friend with MBB5 crit damage: 622,796

So as you can see MBB5 IS stronger.

However, if you think about it, the % in BB5 and MBB5 are the same. The only thing that changes is the skill's bonus attack. 134 for BB5, 1548 for MBB5. That's a 1414 difference. With 320% crit, that's a 5,938 bonus, and with 344%, that's a 6,278 increase.

So MBB5 is stronger than BB5, but because the % are the same, it all comes down to the bonus damage. The higher your stats are, the more negligible the bonus damage is in comparison. Your friend realized that and decided the skill points are just not worth spending.

MBB5 is an ideal skill for a weaker player: A newer player, one who might have just unlocked MBB5, would benefit more. That's because since that new player's stats would, well, suck, the % wouldn't do much since % is based on a player's stats. However, that bonus damage would be worth it.

Like if I pretend the player has 80,000 HP, 5000 matk, and only 120% crit:
BB5 would do 17,014 crit,
MBB5 would do 19571 crit.
That's only a 2556 increase, but considering the player is doing such low damage to begin with, that's actually a relatively big improvement.

By that I mean that you using MBB5 is only a 2.62% increase, your friend would only get a 1.01% increase, but that newbie would get a 15.02% increase. MBB5 is meant for them - to help make up for weak stats. So as you can see, the higher skills do get stronger, but the stronger you are, the less they're worth having.

(note that the reason this happens is because MBB5 and BB5's % are the same. The same logic applies to any skill whose % stay the same in the improved/master version - regardless of class. The stronger you are, the less worth it they are to get.)

I'll point something else out: Blood beam (and improved and master) use 80% of your matk. That's a whole 20% wasted. To make up for this, it uses 4.5% of your HP at max level. This means 4.5% of the HP has a whole lot to make up. Now think about light missile, the basic priest attack. It's 100% matk, 0% HP, no bonus damage.

You with BB5 crit damage: 226,220
You with MBB5 crit damage: 232,159
You with light missile crit damage: 220,096
This means with your stats, your light missile is only slightly weaker than BB and MBB. So if there were other skills you were interested in, I'd even say you could not bother getting any blood beam at all and only suffer a slight decrease in DPS.

Your friend, however, with the humongous HP, would not benefit by switching to light missile. Her crit damage would go down to 552,580.

If you like, I could give you an excel spreadsheet to calculate all this for you to make it easier for you to decide which skills are worth getting.

[Apoloymi]

OMG MATHS ARRUUUGGHHHH *runs and hides*

[R24656887]

And here i'm still wondering why crit def still doesn't work at all

[(S14)Squintina]

And here i'm still wondering why crit def still doesn't work at all

Not sure if it doesn't work or if the amount it "helps" is so small, it might be insignificant. I never tested crit def.

[sithewarrior]

Normally i'd agree with you squint but I tested with lv 5 in each blood beam and basic blood beam consistently hit 40k more dmg than the improved and master counter parts. Same goes for basic and improved spirit infusion. These skills are indefinitely glitched to do more dmg than their improved/master counter part.

[(S14)Squintina]

Normally i'd agree with you squint but I tested with lv 5 in each blood beam and basic blood beam consistently hit 40k more dmg than the improved and master counter parts. Same goes for basic and improved spirit infusion. These skills are indefinitely glitched to do more dmg than their improved/master counter part.

1 - were you equally buffed
2 - same monsters
3 - crits can have a range. It's not an exact 320% - there's just where it caps/centers.
4 - pics or it didn't happen ('cuz although you keep saying it, you've yet to give any numbers about this being tested on a single toon)

I do admit, I'd love to see the formulas for myself (or have them officially confirmed). Would make it easier to build our toons according to our stats.

[sithewarrior]

lemme grab my sots from vault and i'll make some screen shots right now

[sithewarrior]

while im doing that, heres the one for spirit infusion I posted a while back
http://forum.r2games.com/showthread....pirit+infusion

[(S14)Squintina]

while im doing that, heres the one for spirit infusion I posted a while back
http://forum.r2games.com/showthread....pirit+infusion

ooooo both of those were lucky strikes too, how come these kind of awesome bugs never happen to me I always get the annoying bugs that don't help at all >.>

[sithewarrior]

[(S14)Squintina]

O.O That is a strange bug.

I guess there is something off.

(though the original post was implying a much bigger bug. I'm at least glad I helped you figure out why she was in the 600k. Having just this bug is smaller in comparison to what you originally thought it was)

R2 should ask the devs to look into it - or at least to explain to us why this happens if it is normal after all.