Anti-Mage and Rogues

[alex2707]

why u all complain about rogues stealth u should be more concerned about their dodge rather than stleath, even mortal rogues start with a 40-50%dodge when all other classes rarely go over 30%. one thing not to see whats after u and its a nother to see and it and try killing it and only to end up missing 9 out of 10 hits. most rogues ive seen in eidolon have 75%+dodge without buffs/blessing or balancers and when most scion rogues can easily kill the strongest mages and priest on my server cause they cant hit them back is more of a problem than their stealth, u can increase ur defs with gems but there are no ways of increasing ur hit except for soul and it doesnt work the same way for all classes.

[sebastian1988]

why u all complain about rogues stealth u should be more concerned about their dodge rather than stleath, even mortal rogues start with a 40-50%dodge when all other classes rarely go over 30%. one thing not to see whats after u and its a nother to see and it and try killing it and only to end up missing 9 out of 10 hits. most rogues ive seen in eidolon have 75%+dodge without buffs/blessing or balancers and when most scion rogues can easily kill the strongest mages and priest on my server cause they cant hit them back is more of a problem than their stealth, u can increase ur defs with gems but there are no ways of increasing ur hit except for soul and it doesnt work the same way for all classes.

You have no idea lol. Everyone can have a too high hitrate. Blessing of light, slayers gloves, clothes, slayers necklace, random equipment ring with hitrate %, guild skill enhanced control, etc.
Rogues are already pretty nerfed cause all their advantages (crit - all classes can get 100% crit and dodge - all classes can get a damn high hitrate) are taken away.

Mortal rogue with 40-50% dodge? Time to encounter savage/slayers to not dodge anything.
Taking away stealth (or nerfing it) for the pvp tree would make shadow rogues useless. Their use is already pretty limited.

And combat rogues dont even use stealth, so dont complain much lol.

[GeoStig]

There are rarely any combat rogues even if there are you wont find them in high lvls lol, whats a rogue if he's not a shadow rogue stealth stun combo. Rogues were made for pvp so its hard to compete with some1 with natural talents for something as tanks are made for taking hard and long lasting hits, you wont see a rogue trying to be a tank are a tank trying to be a rogue. There dodging is the least of my concern only the OP rogues dodge me easily as u can c sebastian1988 is one of those rogues but unlike the rogues with roughly the same equip as me i find no prob, they do dodge occasionally but apart from that they take hits........so my concern lies with stealth even the strongest mage in my server can't kill the strongest rogue and he has higher stats, the stealth stun combo is a real killer

[sebastian1988]

I know many highlvl combat rogues. But all of them do have to be rather tanky.
Mages hit way too strong to ever complain about any disadvantage in pvp. (Same goes for knights)
Sure, stealth is not easy to fight but that only counts for 1 vs 1.
The stun disappears rather fast when you summon a pet with purification or max your forgiveness.
Also you can spam aoe / use a pet with unstealth skill.

[GeoStig]

o im not talking about battleground such as gr and delivery im talking about sengolia or any other places where u can't use a pet and come on it seems little cowardly to have to use your pet against some1 who isn't using his and he can simply go on lvl terms by also using his pet.

The only real way to catch a rogue in sengolia is if u see him puff or atk him while he's going after some1 else. They can easily atk u while your heading to tower or when you are also atking some1 and dont say o you can spam aoe thats both annoying and waste of time. Its not like a prz aoe where it stay for couple secs and they have 3, mages do have an aoe that last couple sec but a very small one and yes only 1, the other aoes either have massive cooldown time or casting time. You know how it wud look if every step u take u use aoe in a big place like sengolia......yea it makes no sense, u have no clue where they are in big sengolia the only time i've ever caught rogues using aoe in sengolia is if him aoeing some ppl and one walks where im aoeing and trust me that really only happens to inexperience rogues i've never caught a high lvl that way once the see a prz or mage im pretty sure they go from the back instead of standing in front of them. I mean which experience rogue wud c a mage or prz in battle and want to run in front of them to atk. So yes stealth is still my issue damn atleast make u see footprints if u look closely r something

[Zephyric]

Alright, I need to shut this type of topic up once and for all.. It gets annoying to see after a while..

First off, the whole "Rogues cloak and stun, so unfair" bull.. Blood Priests have a skill enabling them to cloak, don't hear anyone complaining there.. Almost every Class has at least one Stun skill of some sort, sure it lasts half a second less at best than a fully-leveled Shadow Rush, but 3.5 seconds is still more than enough time to brutally smite someone while they're incapacitated. Rogues are the assassin Class, so anyone who whines about "unfair advantage" can (harsh as it may be, but I'm that annoyed) kindly shove a copy of Assassin's Creed down your pieholes, as it's the same concept. Use tactics of stealth to defeat foes who would otherwise butcher you sideways because, as is well-known, the downside to the Rogue Class is the extremely porous Defense stats. If you've ever played Assassin's Creed, congratulations, you now understand the play-style of the typical Shadow Rogue. Quick, stealthy attacks meant to incapacitate and kill with maximum efficiency.

HOWEVER!

For as many complaints about Shadow Rogues as there are, there are equally as many ways to de-Cloak a Rogue. Anyone who doesn't think of this, anyone who doesn't consider this, should kindly just stop talking as they lack the cognition required to form a valid argument. Fire Mages, with their Lightning skill, can not only de-cloak Rogues that encroach too closely on them, but can also inflict fairly large chunks of damage to them due to the (as mentioned before) lack of Defenses on the Rogue's part. Knights who can't tank a Stun and the assault that follows, only to come back and massacre the assailant sideways, have failed. Ice Mages who can't figure out their AoE's are an equally powerful Rogue deterrent have failed. Priests have too much in the way of de-cloaking, incapacitating, and slaughtering Rogues. Rangers of course, nothing really needs to be said as it's fairly obvious already. Rogues are meant to be the balancing Class, so I do not apologize when I say if you can't beat a Rogue when every other Class has at least 2-3 outs against them, if not more, it's not the Rogues that are the problem. Figure out what you're doing wrong with your Skills, figure out what you're doing wrong when using those Skills, and stop whining because people decided to channel their inner Ezio and found that they excelled at it. I have a Shadow Rogue, pure-built, and if I had a nickel for all the times other Classes were able to defeat me using a proper Skill build and effecient strategy, Id've bought-out and owned R2Games by now. Rogues aren't OP, quite the opposite, what they have in Dodge, Physical Attack, and Crit, they lack in Defense.

And of course, nerfing one aspect of any Class means R2 will have to compensate by nerfing equally vital aspects of other Classes, as to maintain the balance, so to anyone complaining and practically begging for Rogues to lose their Cloak/Stun, go check out your Classes, figure out what vital Skills/Passives you'd stand to lose, and give those a pre-emptive kiss good-bye. Bias of Classes is one thing, stupidity and a severe lack of foresight is another, especially since no one has yet asked why Shadow Rogues were given such abilities to begin with and why, after constant whining, they continue to have them. Priests whine about Rogues stunning them, but never about Knights tanking their attacks and Reckoning off their Buffs.. I'd say Mages whine about everything, but I know of two Ice Mages who have built themselves into efficient Tanks and who pick their teeth with Rogues, and Rangers too, so clearly they know what they're doing. Knights and Rangers almost never complain because they're already built to not give a **** about what other Classes do, and become even less prone to give a **** as they level. And Rogues only complain about bleeding ears from all the piddly whining we're subjected to constantly. And to the guy who posted this thread, you said it yourself, Rogues are made for PvP, and it's difficult to compete with them in such a case. Thus, you moot your own argument. The reason R2 hasn't taken away Cloak/Stun yet? They found no valid need to, they still consider it balanced in lieu of what players think with biased opinions, thus it will never go away. And the more people complain, the less need will be felt to address and resolve a complete non-issue.

Now that that's out of the way.. Anti-Mage Rangers.. I'll admit, first time I've heard anyone whine about them, the argument given of course makes me want to facepalm.. The mockery given to the point that every Class (yes, even Rogues, who can just as easily be butchered by every other Class as they can butcher them) requires an Anti-Class to keep gameplay balanced officially destroyed any conceivable validation the thread poster had left to argue. I've gone up against both Anti-Mage and Nature Rangers, and I hate to offend anyone who is Anti-Mage, but I've had a much harder time using my own Mage alt dealing with Nature Rangers (mostly Hybrids) than Anti-Mage. Focusing much more on Intellect, they're able to tank Priests and Mages with relative ease, while utilizing their Skills and their Equipment boosts to destroy all other Classes. I've even used a Anti-Mage alt, and have been destroyed in Seng numerous times, by Mages, even after using a maxed-out silence on them. There's a reason more people prefer Hybrid/Nature to Anti-Mage, so if Anti-Mage is killing you then I tip my hat to them because they built it right and should be praised for it.

So in short, your argument is invalid, go back to playing the game and actually trying to figure out what you did wrong that a Mage with superior stats all across the board can't kill a Shadow Rogue, Cloak/Stun or not.. When there's a pure Ice Mage on my server who prides himself on being the self-titled (and proven through actions, even in Sengolia) "Rogue Killer". Clearly something is wrong if he can do it but you can't.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've made my point abundantly clear so I'm going to go enjoy this popcorn.