Short End of the Stick?

[SlowPlay]

I've barely been around... Hyperbole much?

Just old memories.

If you don't know why by now, I'm not educating you. There are a plethora of threads from months ago regarding how Loki / Odin determines whether it's Dual-Type attacks use PAtk / Dark or MAtk / Light. Go find one. The same applies to all merged pets.

Lolnope. But i'm kind and i'll educate you.



Read, understand and deal with it.

[Zorich]

Those passives don't change the base mechanics for how merged pets work in attack MDef or PDef. They may alter it, but the base mechanic is still the same...

And know what's funny - no one uses those powers. I mean, like no one on my entire server cluster with a Frigga or Odin uses those. I just checked the top-100 X-Server pets to be sure. Not. A. One. Here's why...

Holy Water Blessing doesn't work exactly as stated (in case you didn't know). You'd think it'd work against anything not a merged light & dark pet, but it doesn't. It only works against non-awakened enemies or against non-merged sylphs. Don't believe me - test it out. Evidently, all merged pet attacks are "divine" attacks. We figured this out months ago. So it only works while the player w/ Holy Water Blessing is awakened and the enemy is unawakened. In other words, fairly useless. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it won't work against a Hecate or Venus either. I've been told that it won't, but haven't been first-hand in the testing of it, so can't say so with complete confidence.

Divine Blessing is another one that, given the alternatives in the Loki / Odin Skills - no one takes. Are you going to sacrifice the 20% Damage Reducer for that? The 20% Damage Booster? The additional 20% Light Damage Reducer that gives another 10% DR to all other types? The Awakening Passives? Seriously - not a single player uses it. And why would they? You're already attacking the weaker defense by default! Why on earth would you WANT to attack the stronger one? Given most (smart) people spread out there resistances fairly evenly, this passive would actually make you do LESS DAMAGE.

But yeah, you use that as your argument focus. I'll just keep winning Class Wars with strategies that work .

[Zorich]

Archers crit 90% of the time. It is +30% damage, more or less.

It's +30% Damage on the Critical Damage, which is a base 50% + 60% from Determination = +30% to about 52% of the damage one does on a Critical. So it's more like a 15% Damage Boost overall. Remember, it's not affecting base damage, just the additional damage done from a Critical and it's modifiers.

But yeah, +15% Damage (on average) is an enormous boost, especially given that the Advanced Class Ability gave a +10% Damage on Critical Hits, which was the equivalent to a +5% Damage boost. This is like a free +10% Damage overall compared to the lost effect.

And before it's said, the old +10% Damage Stack isn't lost either. One of the new KH passive for archers is:

"Crack Shot" : 20% chance to increase damage dealt by 30% for the entire party during a critical strike, stackable up to 3 times, lasts 2 turns.

So that initial 400% Damage AoE the Archer leads off with will spread 16 hits against 8 enemies, and it's more than likely to immediately stack all 3 buffs for 2 turns of +90% Damage Dealt. Enjoy that.

[SlowPlay]

And know what's funny - no one uses those powers. I mean, like no one on my entire server cluster with a Frigga or Odin uses those. I just checked the top-100 X-Server pets to be sure. Not. A. One. Here's why...

LOL. You have no clue what you're talkin about lol. Those aren't the passive you get to choose, those are the stock passive that each sylph has, frigga has +5% both defence and hp, the one i posted and an attack, odin has +5% def, the one i posted and the attack. You have no credibility whatsoever since you have no clue what you're talkin about.

It only works against non-awakened enemies or against non-merged sylphs.

You don't say? It's written right there.

Divine Blessing is another one that, given the alternatives in the Loki / Odin Skills - no one takes.

Once again, those are not the passive you get to choose, those are the passive that you can't change.

You win class war because you cash more than others and maybe play a little better but you got all this wrong, just deal with it.

Just a little brag since you used an ad hominem, 2nd in br on my team

[Zorich]

Won't talk about the skill untill i see every single skill and effect.

Still no comments on the Active Skills? I posted it and you've casually ignored it to keep talking about Mdef and Friggas.

No comment that Knights get a 750% Delphic? Or that they've got an effective 450%+ AoE (w/ the bleeds). Or that the Base Attacks a Knight has are doing 70% more Damage w/ +20 extra Rage and 120% more damage and popping a defense shield?

Are you waiting for more information before you admit the Mage class took it in the rear?

No comments on how Mage Healing is actually worse in Knighthood Skills than it currently is for a normal character?

[SlowPlay]

Still no comments on the Active Skills?

Not really interested in knighthood since i'm nowhere close, will take a look now since you asked and tell what i think of them. Also i've the feeling skill won't matter much, what will matter is how much cash you put into talents.

Good, meh, bad

Mage Offensive Knighthood Skill Progression:
Default Skills (L5)
- (f) Thunder Gust 190% Damage, +10 Rage, 2s CD
- (n) Fiery Lotus 260% Damage (AoE), 10 Rage, 2s CD

"Arcane" Active Skills (L5)
- (f) Criminal Trial 530%, Single Target, 30s CD, 30 Rage, Single Target, Boosts Enemy Damage Received 30% (2 Turns)
Good for wb and di if it stack with ranger, also good in pvp
- (n) Hell's Requiem 560%, Full AoE, 10s CD, 80 Rage, Boosts Enemy Damage Received 30% (2 Turns)
Too much rage, good buff but noone gonna go for that when you can awaken in 1 turn with 20 more rage
- (s) Lightbringer Recovers All Awakening Pts (Full Party), 30s CD, 100 Rage
OP

"Restoration" Active Skills (L5)
- (f) Healing Hands 30% Max HP Healing, 30% Damage Reduction to Target (2 Turns), 30s CD, 30 Rage
Without cap it would be OP, with a cap it's kinda fair
- (n) Brightly Shining 18% Max HP Healing per turn for 3 Turns, 10s CD, 80 Rage
Too much rage, better get sunt from kid
- (s) Paradise Carol 45% Max HP Healing, Removes 3 Neg buffs, 30s CD, 100 Rage
Looks like tanky mage in titan is required now


Knight Offensive Knighthood Skill Progression:
Default Skills (L5)
- (f) Gash 260% Damage, +30 Rage, 2s CD
- (n) Wrath Strike 380% Damage, 50% Chance of invoking 50% Damage Shield (2 turns), 10 Rage, 2s CD

"Fury" Active Skills (L5)
- (f) Subdue 100% Damage, Single Target, Decrease Enemy Awakening by 1100 Pts, 30s CD, 30 Rage
Gonna have fun with this once i'll get to it
- (n) Spin Attack 280% Damage, Full AoE, 50% PATk Bleed (3 Turns), 10s CD, 80 Rage
Saw it in chaos war, the damage is lame but bleeding make it even, being the only aoe it's a must have and it's kinda lame as ww is atm compared to other class aoe
- (s) Deicide 750% Damage, Single Target, Dispels a Single Buff from Enemy, 30s CD, 100 Rage.
Good for pve, don't think i'm gonna use this one in pvp tbh

"Defend" Active Skills (L1) * We don't know L5 Progression Yet, Speculation in ().
- (f) Fidelity Damage Shield Absorbs 15% (55% @L5?) Max HP, Full Party AoE, Lasts 2 Turns, 30s CD, 30 Rage
OP
- (n) Blade Barrier Decreases Damage by 25% (65% @L5?), Full Party AoE, Lasts 2 Turns, 10s CD, 80 Rage
Too much rage for such a short cd
- (s) Tide Turner Increase HP & Max HP by 40% (80% @L5), Yourself, Lasts 2 Turns, Removes 1 Debuff, 30s CD, 100 Rage
Noone gonna use it

Archer Offensive Knighthood Skill Progression:
Default Skills (L5)
- (f) Armed Shot 190% Damage, 50% Crit Rate Boost of 50%, +20 Rage, 2s CD
- (n) Multi Shot 260% Damage x2 (520%), 50% Crit Rate Boost of 50%, 10 Rage, 2s CD

"Marksman" Active Skills (L5)
- (f) Cluster Bomb 400% Damage, Full AoE, 30s CD, 30 Rage
- (n) Fatal Strike 500% Damage, Single Target, 10s CD, 80 Rage
- (s) Raid Shot 600% Damage, Single Target - Back Row, 30s CD, 100 Rage
All good damage but less exciting than knight and mage skills tbh

"Survive" Active Skills (L1) * We don't know L5 Progression Yet, Speculation in ().
- (f) Red Barrage 180% (260% @L5?) Damage, 2-4 Targets, Target Damage Dealt Decreased by 30%, Lasts 2 Turns, 30s CD, 30 Rage
- (n) Sonic Blast 150% (210% @L5?) Damage, Full AoE, Dispells 3 Buffs from Enemies, 10s CD, 80 Rage.
Meh, not that exciting
- (s) Vital Move 250% (400% @L5?) Damage, Single Target, Decrease Awakening Pts by 1200, 30s CD, 100 Rage.
I'd use this over the 600% delphic any day


Overall i like knight and mage skill the most, knight have 2 really good skill (reduce awaken and group shield), mage 1 that is the most op is you ask me and archer do have good damage skill but overall only vital move seem to be op enough to be compared to mage and knight skills. If i were to pick a rank knight > mage > archer.

[TolapPumj]

Lets not forget about the 3-round stun knights appear to have now, too. Every time they use it, it appears to have close to 100% chance of success. It basically demands the employment of Amnesia rune in fights instead of Chaos rune, and even then its not guaranteed to prevent use of that skill.

[Zorich]

LOL. You have no clue what you're talkin about lol. Those aren't the passive you get to choose, those are the stock passive that each sylph has, frigga has +5% both defence and hp, the one i posted and an attack, odin has +5% def, the one i posted and the attack. You have no credibility whatsoever since you have no clue what you're talkin about.

You are completely correct. I totally brain-farted that those are unawakened passives on the sylph. I actually don't have a merge pet yet. Been saving bit by bit over time to get one from back when they first came out. Testing I did was w/ my GoP vs. other merged pets.

The Frigga one still doesn't work on any awakened merged pet (or Hecate or Venus) - so it's quite limited to an unawakened enemy in it's efficacy.

You win class war because you cash more than others and maybe play a little better but you got all this wrong, just deal with it.

Actually, I wasn't even on the 1st page of Class Wars BR. Was the 12th ranked Mage, and was running the lowest BR in Warlords Hall when playing.


And since I've been playing since Apr '13, about 10,300 of that is from daily VIP. Most of the rest was from Balens offers in the Summer and Fall of '13. I was actually 2nd in X-Server BR at one point before Matmony banned my account .

[Zorich]

Lets not forget about the 3-round stun knights appear to have now, too. Every time they use it, it appears to have close to 100% chance of success. It basically demands the employment of Amnesia rune in fights instead of Chaos rune, and even then its not guaranteed to prevent use of that skill.

Yeah, the Knight stunner is messed up somehow. It's pretty much an auto-stun, even against an opponent w/ 2001 Influence. Won't matter soon though. That skill is gone in Knighthood, and the Knighthood Talents can boost your Influence if you really want to be immune.

[Zorich]

Not really interested in knighthood since i'm nowhere close, will take a look now since you asked and tell what i think of them. Also i've the feeling skill won't matter much, what will matter is how much cash you put into talents.

That's fairly true. There are 7 Talents and they all have 10 levels, 10% boosts to each traits.

If one wanted to fill the whole thing, it'd be like 12-grand worth of recharges w/ a 150% BB match. But, if you just want to focus on the important stuff (res reduce, intensity, tenacity) you can max 2 of them off the matched BB you get from making a merged pet - which is why I'm glad I've been slow-building Balens / BB over the last 6 months or so. I was doing $50 recharges ($40 & $10) when they'd have the BB Matching w/ the Recharge Event that gave Adv Mahra. It's gotten me my Goddess to Red Max and it has me 2/3 of the way to a merge.

[SlowPlay]

The Frigga one still doesn't work on any awakened merged pet (or Hecate or Venus) - so it's quite limited to an unawakened enemy in it's efficacy.

I do play daily with my team mate that has a frigga, mage do take a whole lot less damage from it.

Actually, I wasn't even on the 1st page of Class Wars BR. Was the 12th ranked Mage, and was running the lowest BR in Warlords Hall when playing.

So you won or u didn't? ^^ Also how u got in top 16 with that br? I was 28th or so in knight rank and top 17 was 2 merge/red pet or more.

And since I've been playing since Apr '13, about 10,300 of that is from daily VIP. Most of the rest was from Balens offers in the Summer and Fall of '13. I was actually 2nd in X-Server BR at one point before Matmony banned my account .

Freaking kongregate badge got me.


Anyway did update the previous post with what i think about the skills.

Yeah, the Knight stunner is messed up somehow. It's pretty much an auto-stun, even against an opponent w/ 2001 Influence. Won't matter soon though. That skill is gone in Knighthood, and the Knighthood Talents can boost your Influence if you really want to be immune.

Level 13 only on influence but i don't stun my opponent 90% of the time, not sure you're just unlucky or what but don't feel like it's bugged. Tho i don't mind, i use it for the bleeding.

I did stop cashing since feb of last year pretty much, started with 10k again on december and 2500 on jen and not sure what to do since the treasure inventory bug/ban.

[Zorich]

Overall i like knight and mage skill the most, knight have 2 really good skill (reduce awaken and group shield), mage 1 that is the most op is you ask me and archer do have good damage skill but overall only vital move seem to be op enough to be compared to mage and knight skills. If i were to pick a rank knight > mage > archer.

Thanks for the feedback, though I notice that you neglected to mention the Basic Skills in conjunction w/ the Pathed Skills.

When you add a 520% Attack (2s CD, No Rage) from the Base Skills onto the Archer's "Survive" path, they have both the best PvE Damage Output and the best PvP Crowd Control w/ Damage Debuffs, Dispels and an Awakening killer. I personally think, combined with the passives, that this is the strongest single path.

The Mage is hurting on two counts. Basic Skills (Lack of Damage, Rage Regen) & Healing Nerfs.

Their Arcane Path isn't awful because it gives them that 30s CD 500%+ Damage power and has the nice Auto-Awaken Party power. I just don't see the latter ever being more than a 1-time use per fight thing. It takes a Mage 5 of their Basic Single-Target Attacks to get that Rage back. They no longer gain Rage from hitting a lot of targets. They can't drop the Heal and Guardian runes on this path. Not if they'd ever want to survive to get it off a 2nd time.

Their Restoration path is utterly nerfed. IF they'd gotten a pair of default skills like the Archer or the Knight, one could still take the Restoration path and be able to still have a PvE presence, but if one were to combine the weakest basic attacks w/ the worst path progression... Meh. Just really, really bad.

I understand the desire to give the Mage a Basic AoE, but do it right... Make the AoE the Base 190% attack, give it just +10 Rage, and +2 Rage per target. So it'd be +12 Rage 1v1, +18 Rage vs. the first-hit in BG type setup, and +26 Rage vs. a full 8-enemy compliment. THEN, they can make the 2nd Skill be something useful for single target damage. Hell, just like the Knight's 380% + a passive effect... Make it have 50% chance of a 50% Damage Done self-heal or something. The Mage doesn't need a 500% Basic Attack like the Archer, but something that does the same damage as the Knights would be nice given they've got the best Rage-Gainer.

Know what I mean?

[Zorich]

So you won or u didn't? ^^ Also how u got in top 16 with that br? I was 28th or so in knight rank and top 17 was 2 merge/red pet or more.

I won. Went 15-0 in the Warlord's Hall. I have a specific strategy that has worked for me very well. In the 7 CW I've been in, I'm a combined 105-0 in Warlord's Hall Finals. I don't think that's going to last much longer, as in the last CW, I was REALLY close to losing to a few good players, and was lucky Warlock (and his then 7m+ BR) didn't show. He's now about to pop the 10M BR bubble w/ the last patch. I don't know if I'd have been able to beat him, and with him getting Knighthood, I'm fairly sure I won't be able to beat him this time around.

My "trick" to making Warlord's Hall w/ my BR is that I play in the prelims w/ 10 L12 HP Gems, 10 L12 PDef/HP Gems, 10 L12 MDef/HP Gems and 10 L12 HP/Block Gems along with a Sylph that gives +5% HP. Because HP was (is) a 1:1 BR on the Eudaemon, it's HP inheritance from me would boost my BR enough to safely qualify. I'd take a prelim loss here and there because of it - but I'd always qualify based on my BR.

Level 13 only on influence but i don't stun my opponent 90% of the time, not sure you're just unlucky or what but don't feel like it's bugged. Tho i don't mind, i use it for the bleeding.

It might be luck, but I just seem to always get stunned by it, and not for 1 round. Consistently 2-3 rounds. Frustrating. I've got 2001 Influence too. Just don't get it...

I did stop cashing since feb of last year pretty much, started with 10k again on december and 2500 on jen and not sure what to do since the treasure inventory bug/ban.

Heh, I think we're similar in spending habits. I did a 1k Recharge in February of '15 to get the "free mats" for the Hecate Upgrade - since it was my primary then. Milked that recharge until about September when I started doing small recharges. Funny thing is, my Dark Pet still isn't red. Got a long ways to go because shortly after I did the upgrade, I revisited my PvP CW strategy and moved to using a triple-wind setup. So I've got a Red Goddess, 1-Star Goddess and a Max Orange Medusa (waiting to get merged in the next few months or so).

[R238423534]

Knighthood sux for all!!! LOL

[Alsatia01]

My "trick" to making Warlord's Hall w/ my BR is that I play in the prelims w/ 10 L12 HP Gems, 10 L12 PDef/HP Gems, 10 L12 MDef/HP Gems and 10 L12 HP/Block Gems along with a Sylph that gives +5% HP.

Lol that's so cheap!