About Group Arena and Level camping

[Alsatia01]

Having 1 milion (if that was posible) level 40 hero fight level 80 hero will result of level 40 whipping the floor with the 80.

That was just an example, but that is demonstrably false. Having a lower BR directly effects the damage calculation, from that alone the lower level person will be taking a massive amount more damage. That's not even counting the massive number of advantages the level 80 has.

What I am advocating is the balance, is it difficult to balance lvl ~ BR vs lvl ~ BR?

You will never get a fight with anyone in that case. If it looks for people with similar levels and similar BR, you will only fight other hard-core campers, which are quite rare. I ask again, what exactly are you advocating for?

[rescueyou]

^And if i tell you that i overpower 80 players with even little higher than mine br when removed eudaemon when level 50? Actually had a friend who did also with the same opponent. Think about it this way -> if low level has almost the same br as leveled 80 (talking only about main heroes) if he hits max level as him he will practically obliterate him every time. In br there are things that dont help you especially in pvp like stamina pool. Things that matter are att, pdef, mdef and resistances when sylphs are available.

[Alsatia01]

^And if i tell you that i overpower 80 players with even little higher than mine br when removed eudaemon when level 50?

You're telling me, that you beat level 80 players (as a level 50) whom have roughly the same BR as you, no eudaemon vs no eudaemon? I'm skeptical of that, to say the least.

Would need to see your stats and their stats before I could say anymore about the subject.

if he hits max level as him he will practically obliterate him every time.

Agreed.

In br there are things that dont help you especially in pvp like stamina pool.

I'm not sure why you mean by that, stamina doesn't effect BR. Can you be more specific?

Things that matter are att, pdef, mdef and resistances when sylphs are available.

Which have the potential to be much higher as a level 80.

More resistance 'shields', more/better skills, more astrals, higher medallion, much better armor (they give damage increases), better cards from the card system. All of those either give no BR, or give minimal BR, and yet they give a massive advantage over someone who doesn't have them.

So let me be much more specific, take two characters who have the exact same stats, same Atk, defenses, hp, res reduce, resistances, medallion, the same slyph and same BR sylph, same eudaemon with the same stats. One is level 80, one is level 50 - the level 80 will win 99/100 times, if not every time. Having a lower level than your opponent is a massive disadvantage.

I agree that there should be some way to make things more even, but what you guys are advocating for is either unfair, or would result in you having no fights at all.

[AdaJames]

There's a simple answer to that - campers add almost nothing to the game. They avoid all xp-gaining events, so they won't participate in non-pvp multi-player stuff. They don't generally spend any money, so they're not contributing to R2 hosting the game either. Being easy targets in arena is the most useful thing most campers will do.
Campers are not a sympathetic group in general. They exist for pvp, and the only opponents they can face are total newbies or each other. Fighting each other is fine, but beating on the newbies isn't an attractive quality.

They also lie through their teeth, talk about things they have no experience in, presume superiority because they are so strong in their little chose niche (not because of what they did but what they refuse to do, and just the passage of time).

They also exist just to hurt others, as you pointed out in your post. That is basically the root of the problem.

This is Wartune. Our chances of hurting each other is actually VERY low compared to many other games out there. That is what actually makes it such a good game and why people actually like the game. Things that they have worked on for weeks and months isn't easily taken away from them.

And then we have this lot of jerks whose only claim to fame is bullying every newbie that comes along until the newbie leapfrogs them to the point the bullies can't attack them any more as they are in a different segment of the game. And then the newbies get strong enough for a bit of revenge in the ONE place that they can hit them back, and the bullies cry foul.

My opinion is that R2 should let L80s be matched DIRECTLY with campers. Anyone who has a BASE BR that is higher than 1000x their level pre-L71 (and greater than 500x their level pre-L50) should be automatically matched with a post L80 team in arena. Let's see how they like it.

[oal73]

There's a simple answer to that - campers add almost nothing to the game. They avoid all xp-gaining events, so they won't participate in non-pvp multi-player stuff. They don't generally spend any money, so they're not contributing to R2 hosting the game either. Being easy targets in arena is the most useful thing most campers will do.
Campers are not a sympathetic group in general. They exist for pvp, and the only opponents they can face are total newbies or each other. Fighting each other is fine, but beating on the newbies isn't an attractive quality.

Campers or not, people that play for free do not add nothing in the game. They exist according to your philosophy to be easy target for the cashers or for the older players (that had benefit from old events) and R2 with the new setting of Arena had state that. There is not attractive quality to kill newbies in any lvl... except if it is acceptable to be a lvl 80 toon and kill all the other 80s that are weaker than you in spawn ...


If you don't want to deal with all the stuff level 80s can do, don't. It's that simple. You CAN have more goals, but no one's forcing you to do anything you don't want to do. The primary reason to camp is for pvp, not to restrict your options.

This state is what really make me angry in all this conversation. That people that they do not know me or other players in personal, they think that they really know why we do what we do. I am sorry but noone has the right to tell me or others how to have fun in this game or any other game. Camp or not, Spent or not I have equal rights with everyone else to do what I want as long as I do not cheat or exploit the game. Since I do not pay, I try to have my fun with the way game is today. When fun stops, wartune will stop too.


Of course, the original point about arena is still valid, even if "match by BR" is still a stupid idea, as it always has been. It's gotten a little better lately, but I'm still mostly stomping on people with blue or purple sylphs. No idea if that's primarily due to the distribution of players doing arena at that time, or if the matching is still badly broken. I do usually end up losing at least once a day now, though, where I used to win 15/15 every day for months.

My personal experience in arenas is that the match is still by lvl without been sure. But having a lvl 80 char with almost full talents had 15/15 wins. Now I lose one or two from people with knighthood. I suppose when more and more players will reach the Knighthood the match will favor them against all others. I do not have problem with this.. but this is not what I call true pvp

And for Ada above me... thank you
I was angry with MrFancy that he acts like you, like both you know why others camp, or spent fortunes, or do anything in this game
but after I read your post, I can only smile
you have brought inner peace in me.. So much hate and bad behavior for a real small minority of players in the game as campers, can only be amusing

And for Lydia that had start the topic
I had always thought that the matching system for the pvp of this game was bad. But developers can do whatever they want as long as they see profit. Topics like that is just lost cause, nothing will change. What I really find fair (and is totally my personal opinion) is to match people with same advantages. To explain better, I mean the match to go in 5 categories a. People without sylphs b. people with sylphs c. people from 70-79 d. 80s and e. 80s with knighthood. This is what I call fair. But as Alsatia said above us, I really believe that the 2 groups will not have opponents through the fast lvling that game force to players

Have all a nice day

[AdaJames]

When you complain about how things are, you open yourself up to criticism. You can have a view, SO CAN EVERYONE ELSE.

No one is telling you how you MUST play the game, so you can stop with the "but I have a right too" bull faeces. What we ARE telling you is that if you decide to play it that way, THIS is the consequence of that decision. If you don't like it, TOUGH!

[R238423534]

...I'm still mostly stomping on people with blue or purple sylphs...

Matching is still terribly rigged, and tend to have some relatively stable server-server pairing.
I and most people on my server basically face players from only 4 servers, and occasionally from other servers if matching took too long.
Two of these servers ranked #1 and #2 for Titan War last month (#1 was for multiple months actually).
One is still top 5 or top 10 for most months. One was much weaker, but now they got a massive merge and have much more talents.
The tiny players with blue or purple sylphs are generally fed to whales like you are. Small ones like me are always fed to all-knighted teams.

[AdaJames]

I was angry with MrFancy that he acts like you, like both you know why others camp, or spent fortunes, or do anything in this game
but after I read your post, I can only smile
you have brought inner peace in me.. So much hate and bad behavior for a real small minority of players in the game as campers, can only be amusing

You have just validated our opinions. You love to see others angry. You love others to hate you. You get off on it. That is why campers are hated. You are bullies, pure and simple. That is why campers camp. They know they can't fight in the open field, so they deliberately hang around the kiddy pool to beat up toddlers.

[Alsatia01]

Matching is still terribly rigged, and tend to have some relatively stable server-server pairing.

I think you and everyone else can probably agree that the matching isn't perfect, or even very good.

There are a number of problems with this line of thinking though. For one, problems are easy to find, and solutions are difficult to come up with.

Every 'solution' people have advocated for have been awful; they would result in a system that is either worse, or the same as the system we currently have. If we can't come up with a decent suggestion for the developers to implement, I highly doubt the developers will put the time and energy into solving it by themselves.

The only solution that has been proposed, that wouldn't be completely awful from the get-go is this one -

What I really find fair (and is totally my personal opinion) is to match people with same advantages. To explain better, I mean the match to go in 5 categories a. People without sylphs b. people with sylphs c. people from 70-79 d. 80s and e. 80s with knighthood. This is what I call fair.

That being said, I have to agree with Ada. The rules/systems have been in place for a long time, if you continue to play that way then it's largely your prerogative. If anyone says the system is bad (which I would freely admit and agree with you with), and wishes to advocate for a revamp or change in the system, the very least you could do is come up with a solution that doesn't completely suck.

Edit. - When I say 'you', I mean someone who advocates for change of the system, not you specifically R238423534

[AdaJames]

It is an awful solution, Al. It basically allows the campers free reign to bully, which is what they want.

[Alsatia01]

It is an awful solution, Al. It basically allows the campers free reign to bully, which is what they want.

I don't think its completely awful, compared to the current system. Point taken, though.

[oal73]

You have just validated our opinions. You love to see others angry. You love others to hate you. You get off on it. That is why campers are hated. You are bullies, pure and simple. That is why campers camp. They know they can't fight in the open field, so they deliberately hang around the kiddy pool to beat up toddlers.

I choose my fights, that is why i say that i find this "hate" amusing. If you understand different things is not really my problem. Bottom line here,hate as much as you like. I am in this game, i play it the way i like it, and i keep my right to say my opinion. After all neither me or you have the magic ball to see what will happen tommorow in the mind of the devs.
You can keep your opinion about how low persons are the campers. And i ll keep mine about you and others that they call names and act like it is the end of the world if someone choose something different.
And i am proud more for my lvl 63 char than the 80s because i can still progress against all odds. This from a player that do not like pvp
I reall6 wish u a nice day

[AdaJames]

You keep tilting at windmills and lying to yourself. None of the things you said is even near the truth. No one, including me, cares if you camp. Just shut the hell up about how unfair it is. You chose to stay small. No one forced you to. What did you expect was going to happen when you chose to be small and then enter into an open arena fight? People will ignore you because you are small? Is this what the world has come to? "It's not fair that you get more sun than me! I demand the sun shine on me! You clouds, get out of the way!!!"

[LydiaTStrong2]

This is what I'm talking about, this was send me by my Friend Will, What's the reason for that? And he is not a strong camper yet, he have just 70k on 39.






If this is fair for you guys, I don't know what is unfair.

[R238423534]

There are many possible solutions to make the existing arena participants 'happier', but problem is that arena participation rate is relatively low.
If we 'improve' the matching criteria to make it more 'fair' and 'sensible', chances are the pool distribution is going to be totally unbalanced, which means matching will take forever for some and instantly for some others.
And virtually no relatively trivial criteria could possibly evaluate the true strength of each player, which means uneven matching will still continue to exist.
If they use a set of more complex criteria, it'll increase complexity, which means lower system performance and higher chance for errors, neither of which is desirable.
Overall, I think it very bad for most players to live with such a rigged system, but on the other hand, if R2's purpose is to reduce the total amount of rewards given and offer the prizes only to top players, this existing system works just fine.