amethyst mining abuse

[PunkPetal]

The bottom line is that the type of griefing you are advocating is, in essence, saying "You will play this game the way I want you to play it......or else." which definitely sounds like a form of bullying to me.

Just think about it.

You ninja'd me ^^

[FarrelBrown]

This game runs on GREED. We can blame R2 all we want, but it boils down to our own selfish wants. There is no need to attack people in the amethyst mine to get your mount first, as we could all get our mounts at the same time (barring a few accidental misclicks, happens to us all). Just because you are bigger and badder than everybody else doesn't mean you need to prove it. 50 days at double amethyst time and everybody could have their mount. AFter that, then who cares? Plunder me at will, cuz I won't give a darn then. I say let people cart.... its not BG.

It's more about competitiveness, at least for me. Yes I know this is just a meaningless computer game but I am competitive by nature and so it's only natural that I want to challenge myself to get things as quickly as possible. This desire is only amplified when trying to get something in the game that CAN'T be directly purchased with Balens.

You are correct in saying that I don't have to prove I'm bigger and badder than everyone else and, despite what some people may think, that isn't my intention in trying to maximize my amethyst income. I have approximately 2-3 hours of generally uninterrupted time each day in which to accomplish all major tasks in this game if I'm lucky. Since Amethyst has come out I've missed double time quite a bit because of the unpredictable nature of my work schedule so if I need to plunder people when I CAN make it in order to catch up then I will.

Also if everyone just carted and there was nobody plundering then the entire concept of Amethyst Mine would be pointless and R2 might as well just scrap it all and create a "Collect your 400 Amethyst" button that pops up once a day at 2100 server so that people can click it without having to go through the steps of carting. Yeah that sounds like fun.....

[R211971187]

bottomline sometime i think the LOW BRS are the super selffish one...
they want the high br to help them in mpd of which initially they cannot handle
they want high br to strip for tok
they want the high br to give honor to them in bg
they want the high br to help them now in mine
eveything is about whining and demanding and complaining about high brs.
My simple question is so what have you done for the high brs? The game is set rightly so and that is called PVP.

It is YOUR PROBLEM that you got defeated not an obligation for high brs to always sacrifice themselves for you. If they do so fine they are being nice not forgetting that they do have other high brs to face in cross server activities.

[B4nsh33]

Also if everyone just carted and there was nobody plundering then the entire concept of Amethyst Mine would be pointless and R2 might as well just scrap it all and create a "Collect your 400 Amethyst" button that pops up once a day at 2100 server so that people can click it without having to go through the steps of carting. Yeah that sounds like fun.....

Maybe in China this idea of a free for all, attack for your own gain goes over better than it does in North America, but it certainly isn't fun for me attacking lower br people so they lose out and have to take longer to get their mount.

I too want everything right now if not sooner, but not at the cost of others, with the exclusion of BG. Amethyst mine is just a big bg free for all cluster f*** anyways, I just don't see the point of taking somebody else's enjoyment away.

[Fherlayt]

People who have nothing to lose shouldn't be allowed to attack or be attacked.

People who have been attacked should get at least a 15 seconds protection and / or faster movement.

Players should attack other players where the level difference is 15 or less.

A player should not lose more amethyst than the looter is winning from him.

The dozen critical bug in amenthyst mine should be corrected (black starting screen, staying in combat after its over, clicking on buttons and toon still running past, people becoming invisible and unattackable etc etc)

[B4nsh33]

bottomline sometime i think the LOW BRS are the super selffish one...
they want the high br to help them in mpd of which initially they cannot handle
they want high br to strip for tok
they want the high br to give honor to them in bg
they want the high br to help them now in mine
eveything is about whining and demanding and complaining about high brs.
My simple question is so what have you done for the high brs? The game is set rightly so and that is called PVP.

It is YOUR PROBLEM that you got defeated not an obligation for high brs to always sacrifice themselves for you. If they do so fine they are being nice not forgetting that they do have other high brs to face in cross server activities.

I do agree with you with on this as some people have ridiculous BR for mp's they have no reason to be in and then they scream for help in mp's all day, or even before I have had a chance to do mine. As for helping in BG... I have had a lot of help, but I certainly didn't expect it all the time. As for the mining, a group of low brs can swarm a high br and keep him busy all day. I just think the amethyst mine is very poorly thought out and outright sucks. Its not very fun.

[bshallc2010]

I think both sides have made excellent points.

The goal for stronger players is to plunder their way to 800/day during double time. The goal for weaker players is to achieve 400/day during double time.

The stronger players want protections from the weaker players. They want a longer fight CD (to keep the kamikaze swarms off) and they want a cart restriction on attackers (though that doesn't factor in an empty cart being just as fast as no cart, and still with nothing to lose).

The weaker players want protections from stronger players. They want a longer fight CD (to keep the vicious bullies off) and they want a level restriction on attackers (still prone to same-range "monsters").

The stronger players could, but will not, stop attacking weaker players for easy amethyst. The weaker players could, but will not, just not go to mines during double time to avoid getting plundered. In both cases, they don't get what they want (max gain per day).

The tools stronger players have against weaker players to discourage kamikaze swarms....withhold help in other areas of the game. The tools weaker players have against stronger players to discourage plunders...kamikaze swarms.

But really, it all boils down to game theory, in a sense. Everybody winning, but winning less (400 for all)...or some people winning more, and some winning less (800 for some, 240 for others).

Strong players have earned the right to benefit from their strength, I agree...25 days less to get the new mount seems about right for a "strong player" advantage. But just as a weaker player is unreasonable to demand/expect stronger players to strip for ToK NM...isn't it also unreasonable to demand/expect weaker players to just lay down and LET you plunder them unmolested?

[PunkPetal]

I think both sides have made excellent points.

The goal for stronger players is to plunder their way to 800/day during double time. The goal for weaker players is to achieve 400/day during double time.

The stronger players want protections from the weaker players. They want a longer fight CD (to keep the kamikaze swarms off) and they want a cart restriction on attackers (though that doesn't factor in an empty cart being just as fast as no cart, and still with nothing to lose).

The weaker players want protections from stronger players. They want a longer fight CD (to keep the vicious bullies off) and they want a level restriction on attackers (still prone to same-range "monsters").

The stronger players could, but will not, stop attacking weaker players for easy amethyst. The weaker players could, but will not, just not go to mines during double time to avoid getting plundered. In both cases, they don't get what they want (max gain per day).

The tools stronger players have against weaker players to discourage kamikaze swarms....withhold help in other areas of the game. The tools weaker players have against stronger players to discourage plunders...kamikaze swarms.

But really, it all boils down to game theory, in a sense. Everybody winning, but winning less (400 for all)...or some people winning more, and some winning less (800 for some, 240 for others).

Strong players have earned the right to benefit from their strength, I agree...25 days less to get the new mount seems about right for a "strong player" advantage. But just as a weaker player is unreasonable to demand/expect stronger players to strip for ToK NM...isn't it also unreasonable to demand/expect weaker players to just lay down and LET you plunder them unmolested?

I get what you say, and to the players who are attacking the same cart 3x on the same player fair enough do your kamikaze swarms, but is it fair to do that to the players who are trying to be fair about it and jus attack a player 1x?

I dun even try get 800 for example, my first cart I turn in jus 100, I only plunder to fill my second cart...

So you think my horrendous bullying deserves a kamikaze swarm?

[B4nsh33]

I get what you say, and to the players who are attacking the same cart 3x on the same player fair enough do your kamikaze swarms, but is it fair to do that to the players who are trying to be fair about it and jus attack a player 1x?

I dun even try get 800 for example, my first cart I turn in jus 100, I only plunder to fill my second cart...

So you think my horrendous bullying deserves a kamikaze swarm?

attack and be attacked or just plod along at the 400 pace.... your choice. We have 1 guy like that in our server, he has finally given up and made peace with everybody. This game is long and hard enough w/o somebody stealing from others. R2 steals enough. U plunder somebody else and you get swarmed. You stole from them, so now they steal from you. It's known as Karma. What goes around comes around.

[PunkPetal]

attack and be attacked or just plod along at the 400 pace.... your choice. We have 1 guy like that in our server, he has finally given up and made peace with everybody. This game is long and hard enough w/o somebody stealing from others. R2 steals enough. U plunder somebody else and you get swarmed. You stole from them, so now they steal from you. It's known as Karma. What goes around comes around.

well it will be karma when they run their mps solo too

[Wraithraiser]

well it will be karma when they run their mps solo too

I found it funny when the kamikaze tried to cart himself lol
Wonder whether they think just because they can screw someone over it can't happen to them as well, what goes around comes around indeed. If 1x attack is something to get butthurt over then two can play at that game.

Sad though how they beg for mpd help and then cry you took 30 amethyst off them...

[Chris419]

See I would be much more accepting of your reasoning if you were suggesting a strategy to minimize Amethyst loss rather than advocating a malicious act of vengeance.

The strategy is both justice or karma and a solution to eventually reduce loss of amethyst long term.

As for the "I'll win in round 1" fights... why would I, using a strategy to maximize my amethyst income, attack people that require a 1-2 minute long fight to defeat? Of course I'm going to attack people who I can easily defeat. If I want a challenge I'll wait for Class Wars.

Likewise, why should they not prevent you from double cart when you stole amethyst from them? If someone steals from you, you should try to make sure it doesn't keep happening.

As to the high BR folks on your server who have promised not to attack anyone I say that's their decision (unless of course they made that decision because a group of non-cart hauling toons spent 20-30 minutes keeping them locked down through attacks) and really doesn't concern me.

That was in response to the comment about the mines will never be a friendly "everyone just cart" environment. If people can be convinced not to do it, eventually it will be that environment.

Now let me be clear. I don't get griefed in amethyst mine so this is not me whining about it. I will, on occasion, intercept somebody who is spam plundering people whether they be members of my guild or not but that is rarely necessary. The bottom line is that the type of griefing you are advocating is, in essence, saying "You will play this game the way I want you to play it......or else." which definitely sounds like a form of bullying to me.

Just think about it.

I disagree. It's more like denying the robbers what they stole from you. You are free to keep stealing amethyst while they should be free to make you lose amethyst. It's not bullying if you're standing up for yourself and fighting back.

[Chris419]

You can talk about the bracketing of BG as much as you like, but we spent over 6 months in that 40+ sharkpool and no-one reacted as childishly as this.

AFAIK there is no equivalent strategy in battlegrounds. Dryad bombing maybe, but people do that too.

There was one particular lady on s1 that if I saw her in BG I would leave and try a different one or a different time, my point is that these are the game rules, and if attacking me with no cart gave you some gain eg. dryads then I would be irritated but accept it. But it gives you nothing, and just takes up my time.

Right and the tactic of repeatedly attacking is also part of the game rules.
If you know that attacking a specific person would cause them to deny you from dumping a cart in time (making you gain nothing from attacking him), would you still attack them?

The game mechanics mean you who prevent people turning in xstal are able to make them lose more than those who just attack for gain, and at the same time you're gaining nothing.Do it to enough of these high BR and watch your calls for help fall on deaf ears

I prevent them from gaining from attacking me. Why should I allow people to benefit from what they forcibly took from me. Also there are plenty of people with high br who are nice. And the people who won't help you because of this probably would not have helped you anyways (it gives them nothing and just takes up their time).

[Chris419]

bottomline sometime i think the LOW BRS are the super selffish one...
they want the high br to help them in mpd of which initially they cannot handle
they want high br to strip for tok
they want the high br to give honor to them in bg
they want the high br to help them now in mine
eveything is about whining and demanding and complaining about high brs.
My simple question is so what have you done for the high brs? The game is set rightly so and that is called PVP.

It is YOUR PROBLEM that you got defeated not an obligation for high brs to always sacrifice themselves for you. If they do so fine they are being nice not forgetting that they do have other high brs to face in cross server activities.

They not asking for help. They asking to not be attacked. Just like how the high BR players are asking to not be attacked.

I have no obligation to sacrifice my amethyst to the high BR players so they can become stronger faster. With your logic, since this game is PVP, they should swarm the stronger players regardless of them attacking other players so they won't get their mount so soon.

[Chris419]

I get what you say, and to the players who are attacking the same cart 3x on the same player fair enough do your kamikaze swarms, but is it fair to do that to the players who are trying to be fair about it and jus attack a player 1x?

I dun even try get 800 for example, my first cart I turn in jus 100, I only plunder to fill my second cart...

So you think my horrendous bullying deserves a kamikaze swarm?

I think it's the same. A person can only be plundered 3 times so there can be three different people to pick to stop their cart. If you plunder someone three times, you're making sure you're the only name to pick. If you plunder once, then there might be two other names (so hopefully a 2/3 chance of not getting picked). If you happen to get picked, too bad. It's a risk you consciously accepted.