Avernal Realm needs to change

[ShadowGammaDraco]

We already discussed that o.o People said they want to see fair competition in avernal,they said they want to see how much damage they really dish out,said they dont want to see rogues win because our frag procs double...we gave all the reasons already.But it would be nice to see more people that think the same,so if you do want avernal to change then post here,not only vote.

always good to get more people in on posting +voting , sometimes they are hard to find &don't show up in new posts after a while either. so good to keep the thread alive, will be noticed in new posts and sticky

[Haphaestus]

On my sever, i am roughly 2-3x more patk then the next closest person. 40k patk vs 20k (hes a rogue) im a knight. My soul is almost double his, my pet is kilin fused with another kilin, i have frag fused already, exteme demonlord wings vs angel lord wings. Everything i have on this guy is basically 3-4x better. But can i beat him in avernal becasue hes a rogue? No....270% attack speed on a knight and this guy beats me without even trying. I shouldnt lose to any1 on the server when im that much more OP then them, its just dumb.

[Botolminum]

From what I've seen, the longer this thread is opened, the more alts of people who against the change will vote. Of course, if r2games have the time to take a look at all these posts, they will only find 1-2 person against the change.

Again just from what I've seen, Avernal isn't really everything anymore now, sure it gives soul shard, but that's about it, if you want pixie, just get 12093721310 alts into island of blessing, get 9 billion ewings and sp, sell it, and buy all the PUC that you need. The only reason I was complaining back then was Avernal used to be one of the best events that gave out nice rewards.

Like I said before, they will most likely change it, but not now, maybe next year or so, the reason why it take that long, i have no idea at all...

[missnako]

Some people misunderstood the original statement and I was attacked unjustly in the future please read the full message before you attack other players or calling them trolls. Someone is NOT a troll for having a different opinion. I believe that all players whether they like the idea or not should be able to express their opinion without being attacked.

R2 there a couple of people I have spoken with that are against this idea that are afraid of getting attacked by other players not unlike the way I was if they express their opinions and I am guessing its not just the ones I have spoken to. Please remind people that everyone should be allowed to express their opinion without fear pertaining to changes in the game.

[CloudySage]

I can't help but remind people if you think its so unfair you can have 2 alts. Why not make one of them a rogue if you think they have an advantage? Rogues have a distinct disadvantage in both guild resource and delivery because they don't have much armor if they get attacked they die much faster. Do I see them deactivating knights defensive skills in those to make it easier for rogues to kill them and lessen there skills that allow them to hit harder? I don't think AV should be changed to take it away from rogue unless the other ones are fixed as well since rogues have a disadvantage in them. It evens itself out.

Okay THAT is just bull....Rogues have a disadvantage in guild resource? I can stealth and kill anyone i want in guild resource,thats a disadvantage?? Same with delivery.I agree rogues are weak against Knights,but there HAS to be a class that we are weak against because mages and priests and rangers without purge pretty much die in 1 second out of stealth even if theyre stronger.Rogues are the most advantageable class in the game,BY FAR,i play a rogue over 1 year.I'll list the rogue advantages for you.

1 - Hellstorm.We can shadow strike in hellstorm every 45 seconds if our SS is maxed,this way just waiting till everyone else kills each other,then either suiciding on the last remaining person getting 2nd place or killing him and getting 1st.If there is more than one rogue,then mostly rogues remain by the end with classes like mages and priests getting eliminated immediately!
2 - Seng.We can stealth through the whole seng,get to the crystal and while nobody is there,quickly slice most of its health,or even all of it if no one comes to kill in that time.(That's a reason Blood Cry should also be disabled in Seng,i can kill the crystal in less than 1 minute with it)While other classes have to fight their way through.
3 - Overall PvP advantage.We can come out of stealth and kick anyone's butt if hes the same strength as we are or stronger,doesnt matter.Only stronger knights or people that purge our stun can survive.I'm a rogue with 20k patk and i can kill priests/rangers/mages with twice my stats.
4 -Overall stealth advantage.We can avoid being killed by stronger players by stealthing in any place such as Trove,CoF,Kaymo,any map in pvp servers...
5 - The only disadvantage we have is soloing dungeons is terribly hard for us,and that we're squishy.
6 - I'm a rogue with only 20k patk,3k defense,70k hp - and i can solo past 50 ladder.How? Shadow strike.Just attack the mobs,let frost activate,shadow strike...if mobs not dead,do it again,if you're careful you can solo up to 50,and it doesnt even take that much time.
7 - Last but not least,the avernal advantage which we all know about.

You're saying ROGUES have disadvantages,be ashamed >.>

[TheRaspberry]

@ missnako:
The advice is lame. I don't want to make another alt. They should do what they have done in the past: deactivating the HP drain. That's all what we want. You don't even know what we are talking about here...

[Botolminum]

see ? instead of getting supports, all we're getting is trolls.

[missnako]

Cloudy sage: Most rogues aren't shadow rogues. Combat rogues like to be able to compete for prizes too.

Raspberry I know what you are talking about, I just have a different opinion then you.

Botolmium just because I have a different opinion along with other people doesn't make us trolls. I respect your opinion please respect mine.

Taking hp drain away from rogues would be the same effect as taking buffs away from priests. Rogues work hard from the get-go because of the lack of Defense they are the only class that can't really solo anything until after the first rebirth and that means they need to share amongst other people what all other classes can get by themselves resulting in them getting stronger slower. After rebirth they are often behind in everything from wings to gems because then again they had to share those resources where as other classes could get there own. So yes, if we work hard and get a good frag sword is it is fair for us to use it given the fact we have to work longer and harder to build a good character. You may not agree with what I say, but please respect my opinion.

[TheRaspberry]

missnako: Then please explain to me why is it okay that the mage's skill was already deactivated in AR, or the Firelord's skill? If you think it is unfair to rogues, why are the mages nerfed and u don't complain about that?

It is not about taking HP drain away from rogues but from all players in AR...

[Haphaestus]

Nissnako pls explain to me how a rogue should be allowed to win against people 10000x better gear them them? A rogue with savage gear and a perfect frag with no wings,soul,mount can beat a player with ultimate demonlord wings, 2000soul, kilin, maxed perfect frag.

It has nothing to do with who works the hardest to get strong. Perfect frag is super unbalanced in the hands of a class that can attack faster then any other class.

[missnako]

Haph I understand your point, but taking it away would give rogues a disadvantage so maybe having a special buff not unlike the ones in seng (minimum hit) and survival (max speed) would do just fine. That way rogues could be helped by it, but not so much as to give them an unfair advantage.

[BrotherVT]

nako, when I still had my Lv. 6x Mortal back in S15, I was beating Scions with a maxed out Frag before all of this came out.
I had 5.5k PATK unbuffed and 7.5k PATK buffed and I had Frost Buff + Super Demon to rely on to do damage.
The ability to beat people one plane above you, sometimes different class, proves a point.

This current frag weapon does not. Rogues are not at a disadvantage. The current Frag makes every other class at a disadvantage.

[JPwayne82444]

Rogues work hard from the get-go because of the lack of Defense they are the only class that can't really solo anything until after the first rebirth and that means they need to share amongst other people what all other classes can get by themselves resulting in them getting stronger slower. After rebirth they are often behind in everything from wings to gems because then again they had to share those resources where as other classes could get there own.

I have to call ** on this. Have you ever played a mage? Our defense is almost as low as a rogues, so we can't solo things early either. I know the first time I managed to solo anything was RV normal when I was a level 60 something mortal. As you can imagine the drops were awful I didn't start being able to reliably solo things with decent drops until I reach scion, and at this point I was way behind on my wings and mount, and only stayed caught up on my soul because of 3 PC farming alts who traded gems/PC/etc. to me daily. So no, rogues aren't the only class that had to share drops to make any progress.

Besides that I don't believe disabling frag passive in AR would disadvantage rogues, since rogues are meant to be a single target DPS class. That means you naturally do high damage to 1 target at a time, so AR was practically designed to benefit rogues already. By comparison knights are designed to be tanks/DPS (meaning their damage suffers to increase their defense some), Rangers are designed with multiple roles in mind (and quite frankly I wouldn't know how to sum them up, I've never really played a ranger), Mages are designed for multi target DPS (meaning we are good in AR, but the lack of any place we can get decent use from our AoEs hurts us), and priests were designed for support (arguably DPS as well, but does anyone really believe that?). You don't need anymore advantages, because AR should fit you perfectly already if you can find someone who is willing to help you tank. That isn't hard to do either, just ask a knight in your guild to help, and possibly a priest to heal the knight if they need it.

[CloudySage]

Cloudy sage: Most rogues aren't shadow rogues. Combat rogues like to be able to compete for prizes too.

Raspberry I know what you are talking about, I just have a different opinion then you.

Botolmium just because I have a different opinion along with other people doesn't make us trolls. I respect your opinion please respect mine.

Taking hp drain away from rogues would be the same effect as taking buffs away from priests. Rogues work hard from the get-go because of the lack of Defense they are the only class that can't really solo anything until after the first rebirth and that means they need to share amongst other people what all other classes can get by themselves resulting in them getting stronger slower. After rebirth they are often behind in everything from wings to gems because then again they had to share those resources where as other classes could get there own. So yes, if we work hard and get a good frag sword is it is fair for us to use it given the fact we have to work longer and harder to build a good character. You may not agree with what I say, but please respect my opinion.

I'm from S12,merged with SEVEN other servers,and we only have one or two combat rogues that i know of.Most rogues ARE shadow rogues,not combat,most rogues are combat on a new server.But if you're playing on a new server,then why are you even here,no one on it has perfect frag o.O


JPWayne is right,cancelling the drain will NOT make rogues at a disadvantage,it will actually still leave us a small advantage because we are a single target damager class like he said.But at least the advantage won't be as huge as it is now,and it will balance out the mages being at a huge disadvantage despite their damage being just as high or higher than rogues,but their attack speed being way lower,thus they are at a mass disadvantage in Avernal.

[Bribones]

I don't talk a lot in the forums... But a guildmate keeps bringing this topic up, so I guess I'll say that I agree with disabling the passive in Avernal too. I'm a knight with really low attack but decent attack speed, and I can go into Avernal late and get third at the moment, because of my Perfect Frag... It's the only way I can place on my server, but I'd still prefer it be disabled, I'm not really winning if I'm relying on something like that, and it's unfair to the stronger people who have worked really hard on their characters, and even more unfair to the people who have cashed on their characters... Heck, i remember placing above the mage with like, 50k Matk on my server, and I didnt even have 15k Patk, all because my frag proced more than them, how is that even fair? Just thought a little more support would be helpful, and that R2 should know some of us that do rely on the frag to place want it to change as well.