STOP before you make another life changing UPDATE,READ THIS!

[Alsatia01]

your both putting too much emphasis on my original kid correlation it is not a lynchpin of my argument to change the button and is more or less a straw man

to be fair to me I need to point out here that the connotation of child abuse and abandonment was not MY logic that logic was put forward by Splinterz and now it seems you Alsatia have also adopted it..I don't adopt it..though I do see how you could arrive at that connotation in association with the term "kid".

It was a conclusion that I drew from your logic. Eudaemon are kids, therefore selling them is slavery. Eudaemon are kids, therefore dismissing them is child abandonment. There's nothing wrong with the logic (the problem would occur on the premises, not on the logic that follows it).

I think part of the problem, is that you aren't all that clear on what exactly you believe or why you believe it. So creating a straw-man is almost an inevitable side-effect.

...and yet you don't have a problem with the effect of the purpose of the button that each of these synonyms could be used to accomplish that is essentially to get rid of the Eudaemon from your character's army?

Essentially... no.

By your logic noone should ever complain about anything with a game not even strictly mechanical issues because ..its just a game and..ostensibly..can bring no harm..I don't believe that, but this is Your logic(or at least my interpretation of it) I'm referring to.

That's a straw-man. People should always complain/report about actual gameplay issues. Having a button that says 'sell', is not a gameplay issue, as I see it.

Potentially ethical questions should be brought up as well. However, if you're going to assert that something is a problem, and is therefore causing some type of harm; you should at the very least, be able to give an explanation or demonstration why you believe that's the case. That is of course, assuming it is not self-evident; like in this case.

I don't seriously believe you when you say you don't see the "harm" I personally think you just find it preferable to disagree with my conclusion..but thats my opinion and I stand by it.

I don't see the harm.

Is this going to make people think slavery is acceptable? Doubt it.
Is this going to make people carry out actions that would result in slavery? Doubt it.
Is this going to cause some detriment to the well-being of anyone, including actual children? Doubt it.

I have no idea which examples/scenarios you would consider to be harmful. This is why I asked you, why you believe it's a problem.

[Meikura001]

This guy is reminding me of Sean Penn and his refugee p**n movie: stupid bleeding heart loon who wants to "help" by making something utterly stupid and then get in a huff when that something was slammed to hell by all and sundry and laughed out of the cinema.

You should see the PMs I am getting from this guy/girl. It's probably the same loon from that Easter debate that was beaten beyond a "dead horse". And I thought I was bad when making long winded remarks in the past. However, my posts will have some point to it instead of clawing on something that is fictitious on a game that has nothing to do with real life. Or, am I wrong to believe that Eudaemons do not exist in the real world?

[AdaJames]

You should see the PMs I am getting from this guy/girl. It's probably the same loon from that Easter debate that was beaten beyond a "dead horse". And I thought I was bad when making long winded remarks in the past. However, my posts will have some point to it instead of clawing on something that is fictitious on a game that has nothing to do with real life. Or, am I wrong to believe that Eudaemons do not exist in the real world?

Could be worse. I was just informed of a real loon in my server.

His entire alliance made dozens of plunders on the same guy for well over two weeks now, only one of which went over 50k, the rest not even breaching the 20k mark, at least 5 that was under the 2k mark, and 2 that was under the 50 mark (one was actually a literal 0).

So what did the incredibly frustrated loon do? STAYED OUT OF AN ENTIRE WB to plunder the guy DURING the WB towards the end, so that for ONCE, he can crow about how he got the guy for 800k.

Now, think about that for a second, and about the sheer, incredible, utter stupidity of it all.

1. He just gave up 15+M gold and daru for 800k gold (what with him piloting a top toon in the server; he didn't MAKE the toon, just piloting it).
2. Most of that 800k gold would probably have been gathered BECAUSE the idiot stayed out of the WB. If he had stayed out of it, he would have denied that person some, if not most, of that gold AND the daru that went with it.
3. The other guy can suddenly add 15+M gold and daru to his side of the ledger in the plunder war that I am informed is happening for a measly cost of 800k gold.

To add to all that, the loon was CROWING about the strike in world chat like it was some sort of great achievement. Words fail me at the kind of lack of intelligence, lack of education, the show of hate and spite and the sheer immaturity of the loon involved.

When I was told it, I was literally speechless for a full 3 minutes. My first thought was that the human race is in serious trouble, but then my informant told me where the loon is from, and I suddenly understood. If that is the state of the education system of Indonesia, where they spread that kind of hate and spite in lieu of true knowledge, no wonder their best known exports (at least to the people in the region) are maids and unskilled labour (exempting Bali, whom we all know is a great tourist destination, and therefore have a fairly steady economy).

Hope I don't owe you a new monitor and keyboard, and if I do, well, STOP DRINKING AND COMPUTERING!

[Meikura001]

Could be worse. I was just informed of a real loon in my server.

His entire alliance made dozens of plunders on the same guy for well over two weeks now, only one of which went over 50k, the rest not even breaching the 20k mark, at least 5 that was under the 2k mark, and 2 that was under the 50 mark (one was actually a literal 0).

So what did the incredibly frustrated loon do? STAYED OUT OF AN ENTIRE WB to plunder the guy DURING the WB towards the end, so that for ONCE, he can crow about how he got the guy for 800k.

Now, think about that for a second, and about the sheer, incredible, utter stupidity of it all.

1. He just gave up 15+M gold and daru for 800k gold (what with him piloting a top toon in the server; he didn't MAKE the toon, just piloting it).
2. Most of that 800k gold would probably have been gathered BECAUSE the idiot stayed out of the WB. If he had stayed out of it, he would have denied that person some, if not most, of that gold AND the daru that went with it.
3. The other guy can suddenly add 15+M gold and daru to his side of the ledger in the plunder war that I am informed is happening for a measly cost of 800k gold.

To add to all that, the loon was CROWING about the strike in world chat like it was some sort of great achievement. Words fail me at the kind of lack of intelligence, lack of education, the show of hate and spite and the sheer immaturity of the loon involved.

When I was told it, I was literally speechless for a full 3 minutes. My first thought was that the human race is in serious trouble, but then my informant told me where the loon is from, and I suddenly understood. If that is the state of the education system of Indonesia, where they spread that kind of hate and spite in lieu of true knowledge, no wonder their best known exports (at least to the people in the region) are maids and unskilled labour (exempting Bali, whom we all know is a great tourist destination, and therefore have a fairly steady economy).

Hope I don't owe you a new monitor and keyboard, and if I do, well, STOP DRINKING AND COMPUTERING!

I get you, LOL. No, this person has asked me on how should I celebrate Yom Kippur if I am not Jewish. Told him/her outright since I am not one that belongs to a "faction" (that's the way I see it if someone wants to associate me with something) and can celebrate at will. That's like telling a Christian they cannot celebrate Christmas for Santa Claus that they have to celebrate for Jesus instead. Are you kidding me? I am doing both.

Bottom line, things like this should not even make it to a gaming forum. Everyone else was having fun, and this person has to try and ruin it with this politically correct diatribe (I call it a "tele-novella" since it dragged on and on; wonder what the next episode be like).

[Drabis]

Bottom line, things like this should not even make it to a gaming forum. Everyone else was having fun, and this person has to try and ruin it with this politically correct diatribe (I call it a "tele-novella" since it dragged on and on; wonder what the next episode be like).

Why get all worked up? lol

[R27377783]

...Okay back on topic, it's political because you voiced your objections like any other p<beep> who is a bleeding heart when something doesn't sit well with them. Like I have said, you should have stopped about somewhere in page 1 instead of making a "tele-novella" about it. Not one damn soul on this forum have regarded the "sell" button on a Eudaemon as a form of slavery, exploitation, or human trafficking. Not one. You are making a mountain out of a molehill in typing in all of this diatribe. Just enjoy the game. If you don't like it, then don't play. Simple as that.

Now get off your f<beep>in' high horse as now you are trolling.

actually no YOU are trolling and you just admitted it, I started this thread and the topic still remains relevant(until the word on the button changes or more content to support its existence is added) whether anyone agrees with my conclusion or not. Dear sir, voicing "objections" about anything does not make something political, your understanding of politics is very primitive, seems to be something along the lines: of anyone who makes any kind of objection to a status quo (even an apolitical one) is being political. Your attempts to compare my objections to some *****? political movement you are at odds with is politicizing the topic. I can now make the same accusation of "bleeding heart" toward your reaction to this thread. I don't know why you feel its your place to limit the ideals and concerns of others to whatever your ****** reality is, but if you believe you have this kind of power over others its far more a sure sign of lunacy than my ability to make the correlation of simulated slavery/ownership with the game's "sell" button feature and selling of animate characters..If you had at least presented an argument that demonstrates something relevant to the issue as it was raised such as maybe you believe that the "sell" button IS appropriate because Eudaemon's SHOULD be considered the player's slaves or property to "sell" then you will have validated your presence in this thread...but no all you've done so far was announce in so many words that you don't like the subject matter being discussed in the thread so you're here insulting myself and the thread,ranting(and so you say laughing), about the topic. That is the essence of trolling in a forum. Its also hypocritical what your doing. Some others have shared their lack of ability to draw the correlation and or found it humorous or petty and moved on but you are taking the next step in demanding I focus on something else which I'm sure you must realize I don't have to do just because it makes you unhappy, and probably won't do until I'm ready to move on. Anyway I realize your comprehension is limited so following this moment I won't try to explain AGAIN why there is nothing political about this issue. Neither slavery nor Wartune are major political subjects of debate in this era,anywhere its being discussed politically at all, neither the severity/seriousness of the problem nor unethical nature of slavery are typically considered debatable..perhaps if you visited the American continent in the year 1860 you'd have a point that its a topic of political debate, but in this era you do not. IF your accusing me of bringing "controversy" you might have a point IF I could also have been expected to already understand the lack of maturity in this forum and should have anticipated the asinine reaction the thread has so far received. Therefore I can argue that because slavery is already nearly unanimously considered unethical, putting it in the game unnecessarily/purposelessly is controversial by default. So far the childish arguments I'm having so far in this thread do not tend to dispute that notion but rather claim they have difficulty in making the correlation at all between the simulation of "selling" a "person" (Whatever the **** is its mythical/virtual nature) as also being simulation of slavery ownership of that person. Its an unexpected logical failure that I am unprepared to correct for them. Others are claiming a general lack of interest or apathy toward the concept as being worth noting as a potential flaw in the game because...its only game. This is also illogical because its always been "only/just a game" the fact doesn't mean it cannot have technical and ethical/moral "flaws". Apathy toward the game I DO understand although I don't share feeling nor do I consider it a valid counter argument in a suggestion forum. Furthermore the logical/proper response to me raising the issue..if apathy is truly your only argument..should have been to: not comment at all.
In other words, if your argument is that: even if it s a flaw or oversight it doesn't matter "because its just a game" your comment in this thread is tantamount to "trolling" because this is a suggestions thread in the forum for the game in question, and the same logic can be applied to any suggestion,complaint or bug report in the forum. Meanwhile, Meikura so and so, your characterization of my political activities and leanings which you have NO REAL AWARENESS OF are not only irrelevant but also a complete and pointless fantasy of your own invention, You're not only trolling this thread but you are trolling me with your political profiling. Enjoy your dream world, I hope your as good at gaming as you are at fantasizing.

[R27377783]

I think part of the problem, is that you aren't all that clear on what exactly you believe or why you believe it. So creating a straw-man is almost an inevitable side-effect.

That's a straw-man. People should always complain/report about actual gameplay issues. Having a button that says 'sell', is not a gameplay issue, as I see it.

Thats right its a straw man and its one that I've drawn from the logic of YOUR argument, so what is that saying about your argument?(that basically If I'm not willing to explain where I stand on the underlying issues and what the worldwide consensus of medical psychological research feels about the issue of depictions of slavery in gaming then It shouldn't be taken seriously or considered an issue of common sense. This portion of my post dealing with the button is essentially an opinion piece about extremely well known subject. Yes I feel strongly about it, yes I believe others will see it as a problem. NO I do NOT feel its my duty to MAKE others feel the same way. IF you don't feel the same or a similar way about this issue your a piece of **** and a f***tard casual gamer, **** you, thats my attitude on this issue,YES. Take it or leave it, theres NO changing it. YES it is THAT kind of issue. NO I'm not going to educate anyone about the ravages of slavery/human trafficking and the effect of unethical simulations in gaming..No. IF of all that truly matters to you then I support your resolve to be scientific about it. I don't need science in this issue or to support my suggestion.
Therefore you demand too much if expect me me to explain WHY I believe YOU or anyone else should consider it a "fail" to have the button say "sell". Doubly so when you consider how asinine the typical reaction has been so far, I have no reason to believe the respondants honestly don't understand the question that I've raised so the logical conclusion for me should be that they simply dgaf which they've also mostly made fairly clear. Although I'm not as sure why, if they truly dgaf, then why even react to the argument at all? But I can hardly be expected to gaf about their choices in life regarding this forum or thread. I didn't realize how droll people have come to consider this forum on a whole and that if they found it to be funny at all they would try to enhance the entertainment value with vitriol. I won't even speculate why someone would participate in a discussion forum that they find boring...for fun...that seems like the kind of thing a career troll would do. Its a complete contradiction of logic.
The issue while maybe was too sublte to be noticed before is still "self evident" at leats for me and its so widely known that slavery is not merely controversial but immoral..I shouldn't need to explain(and I won't any further) how its a fail to put an inadvertent simulation of it in an online multiplayer game/activity. ..and IF its so subtle(and therefore insidious) that noone even noticed it at all? The thats all the more reason I'm glad I brought it out in the open, regardless of the knee jerk twerp troll reactions it has gotten. If that makes me unpopular here because already the population forum is overrun with twerps,aholes and imbeciles then you'll have to do quite a bit more to convince me to gaf about THAT little issue. You'll find me far more defensive about the concepts than any challenge of statistical facts or my social personality. It just might turn out that noone currently registered here EVER takes anything I post on this forum seriously believe me I can indeed live with that, and it wont prevent me from posting what I have already decided to post..so if thats trolling to you because I'm not into your forum social games then so be it and I'm sorry the definition of trolling has changed faster than I could post and that you feel that way.

Potentially ethical questions should be brought up as well. However, if you're going to assert that something is a problem, and is therefore causing some type of harm; you should at the very least, be able to give an explanation or demonstration why you believe that's the case. That is of course, assuming it is not self-evident;(left out ** opinion)

okay I'm glad I reread this part because this is not a ******* "bug report only" forum.
NO I am not asserting that it needs be a "problem" thats your paradigm. First if its just an oversight then its already a flaw no matter if its hurting anything already or not.
here's some bones I'll throw of how its a flawed inclusion into the game that don't require anyone's child to go into an epileptic seizure or survive ptsd for it to be a problem I believe be worthy of at least a few lines a suggestions forum post despite the massive crisis level natural resource drain such posts represent. and also give no one any need to discuss their personal passions about life to support changing the button.
1. it is not consistent with the story of the game what little story there is in the game at least. THAT ALONE can effect players and the kind of people who even bother to play the game.
2. I can add now, thanks to Splinter, that its not even consistent with the mythology of the beings that have been depicted to be able to "Sell" them. REALLY Splinter, if theres an argument you shouldn't be "helping" whatever side you want to win.
3.It...(ok..POTENTIALLY)...alludes to normalizes the concept of person ownership/SLAVERY into the game. with normalization the more indistinct and subtle the inclusion the deeper and worse the impact..logically speaking of course I'm not quoting your doctor here. take it or leave it its my opinion. I'm the OP, YOU have to assail MY arguments to obviate the logic of the thread.

I don't see the harm.

Is this going to make people think slavery is acceptable? Doubt it.
Is this going to make people carry out actions that would result in slavery? Doubt it.
Is this going to cause some detriment to the well-being of anyone, including actual children? Doubt it.

I have no idea which examples/scenarios you would consider to be harmful. This is why I asked you, why you believe it's a problem.

It doesn't even matter why "I" believe they could be harmful. "I didn't even need it to be "harmful" as one of my original points for changing the button. Even though it clearly is "harmful". I am of that opinion that not only is it already harmful to the games culture in game and here in the forums , it can only grow more harmful the more it persists and the more its debated.
So essentially your in the "its just a game camp" because none of your well arranged points is also factual(something you seem to require of your opponents) or even logical to conclude given the social nature of the issue and that your opinion in the negative relies on something NOT happening where as those portions of my arguments that even call for proactive social responsibility only require the possibility that something COULD go wrong, to act. Addressing each of your points I could simply argue that I'm of the opinion that if someone were inspired to RP/abduct real people to open their market to "sell" loyal "Eudaemon" kids in real life we couldn't even guarantee that its something we would ever know is happening in order to disprove your "doubts". For all any of us here in the forums knows, its already happened..and your already wrong.(is it the game/devs/publisher or the button immediately responsible if someone does that? No..not in my opinion..Would it need be the game/devs fault for it to be a bad idea/mistake to have it there..for no reason? again,No. Your doubts aren't any form of substantial argument against the immorality of putting a sell button there with no context. They are valid as your opinion and stance on the issue, thats all. In logic we cannot accept your doubts as meritorious arguments to counteract the proactive/preventative nature of these suggestions. Your "doubts" no matter what you base them on, are presumably "hopeful" thinking...and are only enough to satisfy your own(and even perhaps everyone else here's) position in your own world of complacence. Even with a consensus your "doubts" would not be logical arguments of merit.

[R27377783]

You should see the PMs I am getting from this guy/girl. It's probably the same loon from that Easter debate that was beaten beyond a "dead horse". And I thought I was bad when making long winded remarks in the past. However, my posts will have some point to it instead of clawing on something that is fictitious on a game that has nothing to do with real life. Or, am I wrong to believe that Eudaemons do not exist in the real world?

let me just adopt your asinine premise that I need these things to exist in the real world to raise this issue.
The GAME IS part of the real world and attracts real people playing it.. ergo Eudaemons NOW if never before, indeed DO exist in the real world as part of a game..no matter how deeply you imbed a concept into a game..that makes it part of the real world too.
..give it some time let it sink in,smart guy.

[MrFancyPants]

I started this thread and the topic still remains relevant(until the word on the button changes or more content to support its existence is added) whether anyone agrees with my conclusion or not.

You want them to add more story content (of which there is such a tiny amount it barely registers) to justify the Sell button, when your entire complaint is based on you making up story content that turns it offensive? Just... stop reading into it. That's all you need to do. This game doesn't really have any reasoning behind the mechanics for almost anything, so why do you expect it to make a special exception for eudaemons?

Calling the button "Sell" makes more game mechanic sense, since you get something from it, where "Dismiss" would imply you get nothing. So stop making yourself offended over nothing. Or stay offended if you prefer, just recognize that there is nothing in the game that gives you a reason to be offended, it's all in your own mind.

Edit:

Thats right its a straw man and its one that I've drawn from the logic of YOUR argument

A straw man is a position you make up to tear down your opponent's argument. Notice a pattern here?

[Alsatia01]

Thats right its a straw man and its one that I've drawn from the logic of YOUR argument, so what is that saying about your argument?

I have made no argument. That was an example of why your argument doesn't work. Do you understand what a burden of proof is?

willing to explain where I stand on the underlying issues and what the worldwide consensus of medical psychological research feels about the issue of depictions of slavery in gaming then It shouldn't be taken seriously or considered an issue of common sense.

There is no psychological consensus on the depictions of slavery. In fact, if you were to argue there was, it would actually be the opposite of what you believe. Have you never seen a psychological analysis on actual slavery depictions, like 12 years a slave, for example? All the evidence shows that people revile it even more after the depictions are shown to them.

NO I'm not going to educate anyone about the ravages of slavery/human trafficking and the effect of slavery

The issue while maybe was too sublte to be noticed before is still "self evident" at leats for me and its so widely known that slavery is not merely controversial but immoral..

Huge, straw-man. No one as argued that slavery is morally acceptable, or an alright thing to depict. What myself and other people have asked you, is how you can possibly equate a virtual eudaemon that has a sell button, with actual slavery, or an actual slavery depiction.

1. it is not consistent with the story of the game what little story there is in the game at least. THAT ALONE can effect players and the kind of people who even bother to play the game.

The fact that it's inconsistent with the story is not an arguement for or against having a sell button. It's just irrelavent.

2. I can add now, thanks to Splinter, that its not even consistent with the mythology of the beings that have been depicted to be able to "Sell" them. REALLY Splinter, if theres an argument you shouldn't be "helping" whatever side you want to win.

Again, it's not an argument for or against it; Irrelevant.

3.It...(ok..POTENTIALLY)...alludes to normalizes the concept of person ownership/SLAVERY into the game. with normalization the more indistinct and subtle the inclusion the deeper and worse the impact..logically speaking of course Im not qouting your doctor here. take it or leave it its my opinion.

Oh. My. Dear. God.

You actually came up with a reason why it should potentially be removed. It's a miracle. I've been asking you to say something like that for days now. I'm not even going to give you my opinion on it, as you said it's just an opinion. But dear god, thank you for finally saying something on the matter with at least some semblance of objectivity.

It doesn't even matter why "I" believe they could be harmful. "I didn't even need it to be "harmful" as one of my original points for changing the button. Even though it clearly is "harmful". I am of that opinion that not only is it already harmful to the games culture in game and here in the forums , it can only grow more harmful the more it persists and the more its debated.

Still would have liked for you to go into the why, or what potential harm you believe it could go into, but it's a good start.

So essentially your in the "its just a game camp" because none of your well arranged points is also factual(something you seem to require of your opponents) or even logical to conclude given the social nature of the issue and that your opinion in the negative relies on something NOT happening where as those portions of my arguments that even call for proactive social responsibility only require the possibility that something COULD go wrong, to act.

I have made no arguments. Any objections I have posted were attempts to show you why your argument wasn't working for me; so you could either go into more detail, rephrase, or retract your assertions.

I'm also not in that 'camp.' The camp I'm in, is the - 'You have not demonstrated your premise, therefore I have no reason to believe you', camp.

Addressing each of your points I could simply argue that I'm of the opinion that if someone were inspired to RP/abduct real people to open their market to "sell" loyal "Eudaemon" kids in real life we couldn't even guarantee that its something we would ever know is happening in order to disprove your "doubts".

You would also have an uphill battle actually demonstrating that the selling of the Eudaemon was actually the cause of those abductions. It's a similar argument that people made against Marilyn Manson when the Columbine shooting occurred.

Meaning your doubts are not any form of substantial argument against the immorality of putting a sell button there with no context. In logic we cannot accept your doubts as meritorious arguments to counteract the proactive/preventative nature of these suggestions. Your "doubts" no matter what you base them on, are presumably "hopeful" thinking...and are only enough to satisfy your own(and even perhaps everyone else here's) position in your own world of complacence. Even with a consensus your "doubts" would not be logical arguments of merit.

My 'doubts' are not an argument against your premise. They are the result of you not demonstrating your premise.

[R27377783]

Could be worse. I was just informed of a real loon in my server.

His entire alliance made dozens of plunders on the same guy for well over two weeks now, only one of which went over 50k, the rest not even breaching the 20k mark, at least 5 that was under the 2k mark, and 2 that was under the 50 mark (one was actually a literal 0).

So what did the incredibly frustrated loon do? STAYED OUT OF AN ENTIRE WB to plunder the guy DURING the WB towards the end, so that for ONCE, he can crow about how he got the guy for 800k.

Now, think about ..blahlblahblahblah

why is this here? Are you trying to bait me with your gross display of nationalist bigotry here? I already saw this in the other thread and had nothing to say on the forum it appeared and generally have nothing to say about it in this unrelated topic. I suppose it only relates to any of my posts as I have already mentioned this kind of activity in a related thread. The kind of hatred and rivalry that even justifies the loss you pointed out is not limited to any nationality, ethnic identity group,nor does it reflect the education system of an entire nation/region..this is a "gamer" rage issue pure and simple and has been happening in WT for quite some time now. They probably don't care that they received less than what they would have gotten from participating in WB only that they took it from their enemy, and denied them their full rewards from WB.

[R27377783]

You want them to add more story content (of which there is such a tiny amount it barely registers) to justify the Sell button, when your entire complaint is based on you making up story content that turns it offensive? Just... stop reading into it. That's all you need to do. This game doesn't really have any reasoning behind the mechanics for almost anything, so why do you expect it to make a special exception for eudaemons?

Calling the button "Sell" makes more game mechanic sense, since you get something from it, where "Dismiss" would imply you get nothing. So stop making yourself offended over nothing. Or stay offended if you prefer, just recognize that there is nothing in the game that gives you a reason to be offended, it's all in your own mind.

your wrong, this something IS IN THE GAME it doesn't matter to me that its there out of sheer negligence IN fact to me that makes it worse. I'll decide when and what offends me, what does or doesn't offend YOU and why is YOUR call. SO lets see...you expect me to place higher value on the implications to the game mechanic of getting something back than the issue I have raised(knowing full well about the game mechanic long before I posted btw)..brrilliant. It really doesn't matter to me whether its obvious your getting something back from "dismissing" or whatever the Eudaemon ( I disagree that it implies you WONT get something) The word dismiss doesn't imply anything for or against recovery. The simple fact is what is recovered is not even a set amount form what I can tell you don't even know what you'll get when you press that button..thats not even a sale. The button could say "oops" and you'd get the same seemingly random amounts of items back. What the button says has no calculus in the mechanic of retrieving the items. The primary and most certain result in pushing that button (and for me what was the priority demand before they created the button) is that you lose a probably superfluous ally so that I only had to worry about the ones I wanted and could keep getting rid of the Mark Shards I was accumulating without building this large roster of unnecessary characters crowding the list. Now I guess its more about greed..surprising..not very. Anyway..maybe the button should just say "loot" so I can shift my imagination to beating them over the head and taking a few of the crystals back and leaving them for dead. That would have better moral implications than enslaving them and later selling them off to faceless agents of the void.

A straw man is a position you make up to tear down your opponent's argument. Notice a pattern here?

I know your trying to be clever here but it really doesn't matter who makes up a straw man argument. It remains a straw man no matter who is using. In fact one deceitful purpose of such tactic is to make the pointless argument gather significance among the less discerning so they increase the clamor and distraction level of the meaningless turn of the discussion.

[Meikura001]

actually no YOU are trolling and you just admitted it

let me just adopt your asinine premise that I need these things to exist in the real world to raise this issue.
The GAME IS part of the real world and attracts real people playing it.. ergo Eudaemons NOW if never before, indeed DO exist in the real world as part of a game..no matter how deeply you imbed a concept into a game..that makes it part of the real world too.
..give it some time let it sink in,smart guy.

Now, I really want some of that s<beep>t you've been smokin' as I am not high enough.

So by what you're saying, I should have abilities in the real world since I am an archer (sometimes playing mage), and possibly some "crit" damage to go with it. I guess we won't need medicine or doctors since we can heal up with just potions. Do you even proof-read some of the s<beep>t you've been typing before going on an endless tirade that not even a dead horse can be beaten further?

Okay, what will you do if I say I basically don't give a flying f<beep>k about slavery, exploitation, or the like on a game? Or better yet, what would you do when I say I can sell your piddly a<beep>s on the market? Practically nothing. You know why? Because I don't have the case of the red a<beep>s as some people out there who are p<beep>ies and b<beep>thurt about something, that's why. I go on living day by day. And thankfully, I haven't played the game for a while for I am tending to family, my own family mind you.

Now, if you feel objected, the answer is simple: quit your b<beep>in' and make your own f<beep>in' game, or go play Farmville since there isn't any slavery in it. Now, beat it, troll.

[R27377783]

What myself and other people have asked you, is how you can possibly equate a virtual eudaemon that has a sell button, with actual slavery, or an actual slavery depiction.

and my respons is and has inso many words already been: ANY depiction of slavery is an actual depiction of slavery even if its not a depiction of an actual instance of slavery that has ever occurred. I've had to reiterate over and over again that the idea that you can sell these beings in the game means that your character owns in such a way that he/she can sell them off like property,livestock,pets or drumroll folks..slaves. I've said time and again to you and othrs now that its irrelevent if its intentional..becuase of th word sell is attached to getting rid of the being. Its irrelevent that its not happening to a real being in the real world because with some heinous activities the depiction is usually enough to convey the immoral nature of the concept and set up a cultural environment of normalizing the activity if its done improperly or egregarious-ly ESPECIALLY without any context governing the impression of the activity upon the users. When I did it in Star Wars I got darkside points and credits..thats context. the game/devs were telling me that I could do it but the freaking Universe/Force considers it immoral/evil/wrong. I needed the darkside points and the credits. I volunteered to play a shady character. It was no accident. I have not been to any star wars game forum to complain about that episode, and I don't plan to. Maybe the solution is to put a mouseover shader on the button claiming "sell the Guard's equipment(still don't know to whom) recovering some crystals and dismissing the Eudaemon from your service." screwed up implication problem solved.

The fact that it's inconsistent with the story is not an argument for or against having a sell button. It's just irrelavent.

to you, you can't speak for everyone in that statement this is touted as an rpg hybrid game..the story in the imported version is pretty choppy enough why keep watching the publisher add more content with no context why do I have to be so okay with that that I don't even write about it? Because you and a few others say so? I have many sins but apathetic participation isn't usually one of them.

Again, it's not an argument for or against it; Irrelevant.

again in your casual opinion.

Oh. My. Dear. God.

You actually came up with a reason why it should potentially be removed. It's a miracle. I've been asking you to say something like that for days now. I'm not even going to give you my opinion on it, as you said it's just an opinion. But dear god, thank you for finally saying something on the matter with at least some semblance of objectivity.

thats funny, because that last one was me facetiously repeating myself with the main point I've been making the whole time since I started debating about it.

Still would have liked for you to go into the why, or what potential harm you believe it could go into, but it's a good start.

I'm sure by now you have your own take on it..you nor anybody else needs my impression of long term ramifications this "mistake", it would all be conjecture anyway like the extreme example I gave.
I honestly believed pointing out the correlation should be enough for everyone savvy enough to fill out a forum registration form to come up with their own opinion of this "hot "button" issue. I'm not all about making this about "me" or what I exactly think of it. I feel like I've done way too much already just going back and forth with you and addressing some of the shark attack responses because I felt they were troll-like responses. Like I said if I were going to campaign about this most of my activities would take place elsewhere in forums I know others would give it enough consideration to decide based on the face value of it. I didn't imagine that would be necessary. I'm almost curious now to see if it really IS just me or would others who make it their business to confront this type of ** as a hobby also see the issue. Its such a simple and obviously flawed update to me that In my assumption that there is a common sense about that sort've thing it would have taken me a long time to even have continued posting or explaining anything about it had noone even commented about it further or made light of it. It would have been an afterthought maybe a year later: "hmm nothings been done or discussed about that dumb *** button."

[R27377783]

what would you do when I say I can sell your piddly a<beep>s on the market? Practically nothing. You know why? Because I don't have the case of the red a<beep>s as some people out there who are p<beep>ies and b<beep>thurt about something, that's why. I go on living day by day. And thankfully, I haven't played the game for a while for I am tending to family, my own family mind you.

you are clearly the most butthurt member of this thread albeit because you wish you didn't have to read or comment on the topic :PP what a prodigy you are. anyway so you don't give a **** and make asinine(emphasis on the A SS) provocative comments instead of discussing the key points of the topic..okay you have a family lets say a son or daughter your child logs in (maybe without asking you first) and some ahole who has been playing for too many hours gets irritated about getting ripped off for a Eudaemon sale and starts sniping pms at your kid about selling their *** on the backpages market even goes through the trouble of naming all their Eudaemons after your kid's toon and selling them for scrap crystals,maybe quoting in pm their final return values to your kid for effect. I wonder what "you'd say then bud when you get wind of it. Your either gonna be the first one to draft up a report ticket or contact the feds or your gonna just hit block and put on your fake Yarmulke and ask everyone in WC to just be bit nicer I bet...but the problem with that is that if you try that approach your going to come to heads with someone in WC thats been waiting for an opportunity to behave just like YOU are right now. heeh okay maybe this hypothetical here IS a bit trollish. BUt there is a point and the point is your full of ****.