Floating Damage Astral

[HaxJester]

You are wrong! You think the world's gonna end on 22th? Did you really think floating damage increase is a gamble? Well think again my friend because You Are Wrong!

Floating damage percentage Does give you a higher advantage on the Max. damage end. As the Numbers are added in higher amount since the percentage gains more the higher the number is. Let's say you're about to cast your spell/ability, the damage is being generated from your Min. attack to your Max. attack, it's random what the number will be eventually. Comparing 1k min dmg and 3k max damage with the 20% floating damage astral, your chances landing the Min. attack range increased by 200 points. That means another 1-200 points are added to your minimum damage range On which your actual damage may be calculated on once you activate your ability. On the other end, 20% adds 600 points to your max. damage bit. That means the chances for you landing the actual damage hit in the Max. Damage range is increased by 600 points, varying throughout the extra 1-600 points while the damage is being generated (before it displays). That gives us Two seperate damage scales: 1k - 3k and 800 - 3.6k, getting the average point on both of those damage scales gives us 2k and 2.2k

1st damage scale: Min. dmg 1k - 2k (1k points, 50% chance to hit the Lower damage part of your damage scale) Max. dmg 2k-3k (1k points, 50% chance to hit max dmg variation)

2nd damage scale: Min. dmg 800 - 2k (1.2k points, 33.3% chance to hit the minimum damage range) Max. dmg 2k - 3.6k (1.6k points, 66.6% chance to hit the maximum damage range) 2k being the middle ground for the damage scale WITHOUT the floating damage add, therefor With the floating damage addition your Max. damage variation scale is increased by 33.3%. You are more likely to hit the 2k-3.6k damage scale Now with an increased chance of 16.6% to hit the Max range of your damage (66.6% in total) With the FLOATING DAMAGE astral rather than hit 2-3k without any chance increase, aswell just 50% chance in total.

In theory if your current damage range would be 1000 - 3000, a 20% floating damage increase astral would give you a 16.6% higher chance to hit the Max. damage scale of your damage range compared to no astral, aswell hitting the lower range compared to your NO ASTRAL average damage is reduced by 16.6%. That is in comparsion with the damage scale for No astral. When using the astral, you'd still have your min. dmg end and your max. dmg end aswell the average damage point. The above is showing you the benefits and increase in damage due to the Floating Damage astral.

Using this astral is NOT a gamble. Without the astral your min. and max. dmg will be distributed down to 50% anyway while you call THAT a steady damage.
It's a gamble for 1-hit fights (50% chance, but still higher chance in percentage to hit the Higher end of your average damage than of without using the astral), but it's a steady damage increase in longer perspective as you now have a 16.6% higher chance to hit 20% harder.

I haven't slept for a couple of days so I may have of done couple of calculation mistakes, but the principle remains the same. Prove me wrong please and call it a Gamble one more time, I dare you! D:

My name is Jack Ryder and You Are Wrong!

P.S! This is merely a debate wether Floating Damage is useful for increasing your damage or not of course. Surely the astral could be replaced with a better kind from defensive kind.

before going into random blabering, can you give me some solid numbers? Like what is your base average damage in that 1k to 2k range? Nothing can have a 110% cap at 2k & 90% base at 1k without base floating damage. So start off with workable numbers first

Besides, when considering floating damage, it actually amplifies & reduces by adding onto your base average damage, or so I've been told, if it amplifies by multiplying then I'll agree with you there. If not, then this means that a 21% increase stretches it to 90%-21% to 110% + 21%, (69%to 131%) so the amount increased & reduced is actually the same.

To your third argument, if gambling with a potential 1 hit, it will always be a loss. This is because if you do manage to 1 hit, it's great, but if you failed to, then you'll have to spend more turns gambling, which has the same win loss chance, causing the match to be stretched a lot longer than it would have been, which give you a better chance at losing.
To visualize this with a scenario, say you're fighting someone at 180 HP & your base damage is 100, w/o floating damage, it is always guarenteed that you will 2 hit kill this target, with enough, stretching your damage to 20 to 180, you will be taking a shot at doing no damage to 1 shot killing, in the long run, you'll take more than 2 turns to kill.

Regarding your P.S.
Sorry to burst your bubble but it is not true, floating damage is good for WB, although your damage is going to average out to be the same, you will have a shot at occasionally landing high hits, which gives you a chance at landing in the top 3 for extra goodies. So it actually works to your favor as it is not a gamble long term yet it can give you a chance at getting you something better

[PokemaniaX]

before going into random blabering, can you give me some solid numbers? Like what is your base average damage in that 1k to 2k range? Nothing can have a 110% cap at 2k & 90% base at 1k without base floating damage. So start off with workable numbers first

Besides, when considering floating damage, it actually amplifies & reduces by adding onto your base average damage, or so I've been told, if it amplifies by multiplying then I'll agree with you there. If not, then this means that a 21% increase stretches it to 90%-21% to 110% + 21%, (69%to 131%) so the amount increased & reduced is actually the same.

To your third argument, if gambling with a potential 1 hit, it will always be a loss. This is because if you do manage to 1 hit, it's great, but if you failed to, then you'll have to spend more turns gambling, which has the same win loss chance, causing the match to be stretched a lot longer than it would have been, which give you a better chance at losing.
To visualize this with a scenario, say you're fighting someone at 180 HP & your base damage is 100, w/o floating damage, it is always guarenteed that you will 2 hit kill this target, with enough, stretching your damage to 20 to 180, you will be taking a shot at doing no damage to 1 shot killing, in the long run, you'll take more than 2 turns to kill.

Regarding your P.S.
Sorry to burst your bubble but it is not true, floating damage is good for WB, although your damage is going to average out to be the same, you will have a shot at occasionally landing high hits, which gives you a chance at landing in the top 3 for extra goodies. So it actually works to your favor as it is not a gamble long term yet it can give you a chance at getting you something better

there are no facts nor base behind your hateful reply there. Solid numbers? What does it matter what MY damage comes out as? Take your own base average damage out of say over 9000 attempts and do the calculus through the percentages listed above. Do couple of testruns if you cannot work the percentages through your head.

Nothing can have a 110% cap at 2k & 90% base at 1k without base floating damage. So start off with workable numbers first --- makes no sense, clarify please.

it actually amplifies & reduces by adding onto your base average damage --- wrong, The BASE average damage remains the same actually. The lower end (min dmg) has a smaller reduce in damage than the higher end (max dmg) gets in increase.

To your third argument, if gambling with a potential 1 hit, - Wasn't an argument, just brought out the perspective damage plan in the long run for folks who care for dps. Is NOT relevant to the thread AT ALL

Regarding your P.S.
Sorry to burst your bubble but it is not true, floating damage is good for WB, although your damage is going to average out to be the same --- Do you understand the concept how Damage output random is being generated through the massive amount of numbers of your overall damage Scale? Floating Damage adds a LOW addition to the Min dmg number values and higher value to your max dmg part according to have taken 2k dmg the middle ground. The randomly generated number goes through Less amount of Low damage numbers and Higher amount of High damage numbers. Increasing the chance to hit the High Damage over the average point. 16.6% higher chance to hit 20% harder. Where did you look when you went through the thread?

[HaxJester]

there are no facts nor base behind your hateful reply there. Solid numbers? What does it matter what MY damage comes out as? Take your own base average damage out of say over 9000 attempts and do the calculus through the percentages listed above. Do couple of testruns if you cannot work the percentages through your head.

Nothing can have a 110% cap at 2k & 90% base at 1k without base floating damage. So start off with workable numbers first --- makes no sense, clarify please.

it actually amplifies & reduces by adding onto your base average damage --- wrong, The BASE average damage remains the same actually. The lower end (min dmg) has a smaller reduce in damage than the higher end (max dmg) gets in increase.

To your third argument, if gambling with a potential 1 hit, - Wasn't an argument, just brought out the perspective damage plan in the long run for folks who care for dps. Is NOT relevant to the thread AT ALL

Regarding your P.S.
Sorry to burst your bubble but it is not true, floating damage is good for WB, although your damage is going to average out to be the same --- Do you understand the concept how Damage output random is being generated through the massive amount of numbers of your overall damage Scale? Floating Damage adds a LOW addition to the Min dmg number values and higher value to your max dmg part according to have taken 2k dmg the middle ground. The randomly generated number goes through Less amount of Low damage numbers and Higher amount of High damage numbers. Increasing the chance to hit the High Damage over the average point. 16.6% higher chance to hit 20% harder. Where did you look when you went through the thread?

first point - start off with workable numbers, like 900 to 1100, base damage is 1k

second, if it gets added, with say 21% astral, then that 900 too 1100 becomes 690 to 1310, <-adding base average damage here does nothing. From what I have seen on other forums this was how floating damage worked.
if it gets multiplied with the same astral, then that 900 to 1100 becomes 69%*900 = 621 to 121%*1100 = 1331 <- multiplying end average damage here increases average damage. You worked assuming it multiplies the end damages.

third, an argument is defined as a point you used to back up your statement, don't be taking it as me saying you're arguing, I'm merely providing a counterpoint (counterargument) to your point (argument)

regarding the PS - see point 2, you operated on the basis it magnifies the end damages, do you have any sources or experimental results that backs up this claim?

regarding the "hateful" reply, I can't say your post wasn't any different too, you did unnecessarily repeated that others were wrong, & those posts just attract destructive criticism.

[R2471526]

i would actually like a g.m to do work and find out formulas for all of us, so we can end all debates

[ShiKKihS]

You are wrong! You think the world's gonna end on 22th? Did you really think floating damage increase is a gamble? Well think again my friend because You Are Wrong!

Floating damage percentage Does give you a higher advantage on the Max. damage end. As the Numbers are added in higher amount since the percentage gains more the higher the number is. Let's say you're about to cast your spell/ability, the damage is being generated from your Min. attack to your Max. attack, it's random what the number will be eventually. Comparing 1k min dmg and 3k max damage with the 20% floating damage astral, your chances landing the Min. attack range increased by 200 points. That means another 1-200 points are added to your minimum damage range On which your actual damage may be calculated on once you activate your ability. On the other end, 20% adds 600 points to your max. damage bit. That means the chances for you landing the actual damage hit in the Max. Damage range is increased by 600 points, varying throughout the extra 1-600 points while the damage is being generated (before it displays). That gives us Two seperate damage scales: 1k - 3k and 800 - 3.6k, getting the average point on both of those damage scales gives us 2k and 2.2k

1st damage scale: Min. dmg 1k - 2k (1k points, 50% chance to hit the Lower damage part of your damage scale) Max. dmg 2k-3k (1k points, 50% chance to hit max dmg variation)

2nd damage scale: Min. dmg 800 - 2k (1.2k points, 33.3% chance to hit the minimum damage range) Max. dmg 2k - 3.6k (1.6k points, 66.6% chance to hit the maximum damage range) 2k being the middle ground for the damage scale WITHOUT the floating damage add, therefor With the floating damage addition your Max. damage variation scale is increased by 33.3%. You are more likely to hit the 2k-3.6k damage scale Now with an increased chance of 16.6% to hit the Max range of your damage (66.6% in total) With the FLOATING DAMAGE astral rather than hit 2-3k without any chance increase, aswell just 50% chance in total.

In theory if your current damage range would be 1000 - 3000, a 20% floating damage increase astral would give you a 16.6% higher chance to hit the Max. damage scale of your damage range compared to no astral, aswell hitting the lower range compared to your NO ASTRAL average damage is reduced by 16.6%. That is in comparsion with the damage scale for No astral. When using the astral, you'd still have your min. dmg end and your max. dmg end aswell the average damage point. The above is showing you the benefits and increase in damage due to the Floating Damage astral.

Using this astral is NOT a gamble. Without the astral your min. and max. dmg will be distributed down to 50% anyway while you call THAT a steady damage.
It's a gamble for 1-hit fights (50% chance, but still higher chance in percentage to hit the Higher end of your average damage than of without using the astral), but it's a steady damage increase in longer perspective as you now have a 16.6% higher chance to hit 20% harder.

I haven't slept for a couple of days so I may have of done couple of calculation mistakes, but the principle remains the same. Prove me wrong please and call it a Gamble one more time, I dare you! D:

My name is Jack Ryder and You Are Wrong!

P.S! This is merely a debate wether Floating Damage is useful for increasing your damage or not of course. Surely the astral could be replaced with a better kind from defensive kind.

i totally disagree with this one.. mostly.. disagreed on the max damage output w/c gives a 600 lol.. it will add also a 200 in it.. -200 on min and a +200 on max

[HaxJester]

i would actually like a g.m to do work and find out formulas for all of us, so we can end all debates

That would be a good idea

[PokemaniaX]

i totally disagree with this one.. mostly.. disagreed on the max damage output w/c gives a 600 lol.. it will add also a 200 in it.. -200 on min and a +200 on max

get your math right dude before you start "disagreeing" with anything here. 20% of 1k and 20% of 3k is not the same thing -.-'

[PokemaniaX]

That would be a good idea

As far as the G.Ms know about it, it'd go something like this "floating damage are the numbers floating above your or enemy's head"

[PokemaniaX]

third, an argument is defined as a point you used to back up your statement, don't be taking it as me saying you're arguing, I'm merely providing a counterpoint (counterargument) to your point (argument)

Wow, you just wouldn't stop would you? From what hellish holes do the likes of you come from? I am trying to clarify the matter of defining astrals that have been up for ages. Then people like You come in acting all teachy and witty, keeping rather distant and nonrelevant from the main topic itself, just gaining the pure satisfaction of trying to show people their place rather than solve the matter in a cheerful teamspirit. I hope you won't end up like Scott Tenorman. Those pubes are nasty, brah! If you ever thought proving your ground in an arrogant manner on a game's forum would be something awesome to do, think again my friend because you are Wrong. My name is Jack Ryder.

you did unnecessarily repeated that others were wrong

Not liking Jack Ryder I suppose? ^^

As for the astral matter itself. There is no mathematical way in hell the chance to hit the higher of average rather than lower after having calculated that Floating damage percentage from your damagescale, would ever remain equal.

[ShiKKihS]

TRUE damage is at 100% , in this situation we say a 1k damage for example

DEfault floating damage as we all know is 10%

minimum damage with a 10% floating is 90%

maximum damage with a 10% floating is at 110%

for example a lvl4 ruthlessness = 28% , adds up to the default w/c is 10 .. in total of 38% .. means -38% upto +38%.. 62% - 138% ..

in actual damage that would be 620 - 1380 range of damage .. DO THE MATH what is 138% of 1k..

[ShiKKihS]

2nd damage scale: Min. dmg 800 - 2k (1.2k points, 33.3% chance to hit the minimum damage range) Max. dmg 2k - 3.6k (1.6k points, 66.6% chance to hit the maximum damage range) 2k being the middle ground for the damage scale WITHOUT the floating damage add, therefor With the floating damage addition your Max. damage variation scale is increased by 33.3%. You are more likely to hit the 2k-3.6k damage scale Now with an increased chance of 16.6% to hit the Max range of your damage (66.6% in total) With the FLOATING DAMAGE astral rather than hit 2-3k without any chance increase, aswell just 50% chance in total..

and ***?!? u now saying minimum damage has a range?!? and so does maximum?!? omg!

[HaxJester]

Wow, you just wouldn't stop would you? From what hellish holes do the likes of you come from? I am trying to clarify the matter of defining astrals that have been up for ages. Then people like You come in acting all teachy and witty, keeping rather distant and nonrelevant from the main topic itself, just gaining the pure satisfaction of trying to show people their place rather than solve the matter in a cheerful teamspirit. I hope you won't end up like Scott Tenorman. Those pubes are nasty, brah! If you ever thought proving your ground in an arrogant manner on a game's forum would be something awesome to do, think again my friend because you are Wrong. My name is Jack Ryder.



Not liking Jack Ryder I suppose? ^^

As for the astral matter itself. There is no mathematical way in hell the chance to hit the higher of average rather than lower after having calculated that Floating damage percentage from your damagescale, would ever remain equal.

Can you stop arguing off topic and get back to that thing you were talking about? I already gave you the difference between additive & multiplicative floating damage yet you keep straying off further from the topic yourself, I'll like to know what rathole did you crawl out of

The explanation in quote

second, if it gets added, with say 21% astral, then that 900 too 1100 becomes 690 to 1310, <-adding base average damage here does nothing. From what I have seen on other forums this was how floating damage worked.
if it gets multiplied with the same astral, then that 900 to 1100 becomes 69%*900 = 621 to 121%*1100 = 1331 <- multiplying end average damage here increases average damage. You worked assuming it multiplies the end damages.

[PokemaniaX]

and ***?!? u now saying minimum damage has a range?!? and so does maximum?!? omg!

Yes Mr. *** dude. Minimum damage has a range from minimum damage to its average point and after having used the floating damage astral the minimum damage range to the average "base damage" as you say is lower than the maximum damage range (higher damage from the average point) and no more equal to the value of 50%

[ShiKKihS]

ok whatever.. if you say so ROFL

oh and kindly refer to this guide >> http://forum.r2games.com/showthread....d-Daru-Earning

and see what minimum damage and maximum damage is.. what it REALLY MEANS

[PokemaniaX]

ok whatever.. if you say so ROFL

oh and kindly refer to this guide >> http://forum.r2games.com/showthread....d-Daru-Earning

and see what minimum damage and maximum damage is.. what it REALLY MEANS

the referance has defense involved in various cases. It is Totally nonrelevant as I was just clarifying the percentage and chances when using the floating damage astral in Theory. My damage range values are just made up to show it in image. However, you are missing out how the damage is being generated and how the random encounter goes through All of the possible damage number you could ever deal before the displaying damage amount is finally being displayed. You are So offtopic and missing the point here.

In addition, your damage range from your average damage could Never be 90% and 110% of average, varying 10% through the scale.
While testing with over 100 hits on the same target, my minimum hit was 2.7k, while maximum hit slightly over 5k. Average being ¬ 3850 of which my minimum hit did not quite equal 90% nor my max hit ever stayed close 110%

No idea from where your referred guide's numbers were pulled out from aswell I giggled once I saw the argument over minimum damage scale. It's up to you wether you decide to make my calculus into a mockery and "Roll on The Floor Laughing" (did you really do that? ^^) or put it in a test yourself before you have random guessing aswell arguments against my numbers.