Iris Being OP'd with archers

[dwmedia]

Dont forgot that iris can not heal allways, is limit time man can be inside of it and limit time man can use the heals.

[-Eilistraee-]

Allowing Mages/Knights to get higher heal when they are using EWD is like giving them critical effects too. The point is EWD disables your freaking critical. So why should users of that astral be given critical like healing AND at the freaking same time do constant enhanced damage? Best of both worlds? Bull **** argument from the start.

Archers rely on critical (a chance, not something 100%) to get rage, to get more damage and in this case, more healing. Its not something that is guaranteed by the game (set up). If Mages really desire the impact (advantages) of critical, then switch to a critical set up.

[Ice_Ace]

In that aspect make Pan MATK and IRIS/Apollo Patk, then us non-mages will be happy we die less fast too .

No need, when the 3 new sylphs came out. Lightning and Dark Sylphs are MAtk types and the fire sylph is a PAtk type.

[Flame_Ace]

I have a few questions here, hope that someone can enlighten me

1.Anyone know what percentage of damage is increased when someone deal critical damage?
2.Are critical damage multipliers constant or differs depending on the critical stat value?
3. How are critical chances calculated?

[anichaos]

% of damage is increased by 50% default, than Determination astral adds up to another 50% of damage.

crit damage is constant, but still basing off the 90~110% default damage range (can be changed if you're using ruthlessness astral)

crit stat value is only for crit rate, how often you're cirt'ing

crit rate is also adjusted by your level and BR, the higher level and BR you are, the more crit stat value you need.


Such as (example, no one knows true value)

level 50 only needs 3000 to obtain 70% crit rate
while a
level 60 would needs 4000 to obtain 70% crit rate

Also, it is assumed there is a crit rate cap, most likely at 95%

since not even a level 74 archer with 8000 crit stat value crits 100% of the times (old zebq info)

[Flame_Ace]

% of damage is increased by 50% default, than Determination astral adds up to another 50% of damage.

crit damage is constant, but still basing off the 90~110% default damage range (can be changed if you're using ruthlessness astral)

crit stat value is only for crit rate, how often you're cirt'ing

crit rate is also adjusted by your level and BR, the higher level and BR you are, the more crit stat value you need.


Such as (example, no one knows true value)

level 50 only needs 3000 to obtain 70% crit rate
while a
level 60 would needs 4000 to obtain 70% crit rate

Also, it is assumed there is a crit rate cap, most likely at 95%

since not even a level 74 archer with 8000 crit stat value crits 100% of the times (old zebq info)

Thanks for the info

Another thing, so crit heal does x2 heal (with the default 50% dmg boost + 50% from determination) at most than the normal heal? Am I mistaken?

[anichaos]

Thanks for the info

Another thing, so crit heal does x2 heal (with the default 50% dmg boost + 50% from determination) at most than the normal heal? Am I mistaken?

Yes, crit heal also works like damage, same boosts.

Also, basing on experience, healing is not affected by PvP Medals, PvP Medals only increase your damage to targets, doesn't feel like it adds to self.


Currently Will-Destroyer astral only work in increase damage by up to 50% (always active 100% chance increase, unlike crit)

But WD astral does not work on Healing increase.

[OniZoro]

First of all to all the people thinking this is crying, I'd rather see you people getting off and reading before you comment, most likely archers who don't wanna stop being OP'D. And yeh, so imagine an 8k crit archer crit healing, the chance of crit has to be like.. 80%? And the heal increased is 100% if the person has lvl 10 determ. EWD would give HALF the benefit. EWD is to disable crit strike but compensate for it by adding some dmg which it isn't doin with heals. You crit peeps are the one crying, not the ones saying EWD should add some heal to irises

[Zorich]

Too many individual comments to rebut, so here's the full list:

1. Will Destroyer does NOT affect Heals. By all reports it used to at some point, but as of patch 1.66, it's gone.

2. Archers have an innate +20% Critical. Knights have an innate +20% Targeted Healing. Mages only get a +8% Healing, making them the worst Critical Healing (Pet) class in the game.

3. A Critical Knight w/ Iris is the premiere PvP class right now. They have the two highest damage single-target Delphics. Block-Healing + Heal Runes which are about the equivalent of Sunto + Resto already. Iris Rain Dance will Full-Heal them. They get 2 AoEs from Iris to clear even max L80 Troops no-problem. They come out of Iris w/ a readied EDD that will finish most equal BR Mages and Archers at 50%. Their PDef already owned Archers, now Archers have to do the same damage 2x or 3x over to try and drop a Knight. A Mage that used to do well vs Knights will really struggle vs. them now, often having to rely on Holy Seal to either delay Healing or the EDD after Healing. A Critical Knight with Iris and a superior Holy Seal should own Archers even with as much as 15k+ more BR, and should also not have any issues with an equal BR Mage.

Being that the Mage is the weakest DPS class and was the strongest Healing class, I think it's fair that they have their Healing boosted in some way to make them the best healers again. Now I know, people sit there and say, "They've got BL and Resto already! Just carry an Iris!" But that's not the point. Archers and Knights get to add to their skills via the Pet, giving them better-than-Mage-Healing. Mage's should not be beholden to replicating their own skill set just to stay useful / competitive.

Iris' Heals are already superior to the Mage's Heals, by a decent margin. They're far better in the hands of another class. What a Mage needs is to have that Passive Skill of 4%/8% Healing boost upped to 20%/40% or more and then they'll be back to being the Healers they should be. This will also allow them to supplement their skills with a non-Healing pet so that they can be as well rounded as the Iris has made the other two classes. That's Balance.

4. The effectiveness of Iris Heals vs. Mage Healing. As a 125K BR Mage (unbuffed), my Iris will Crit 3/4 targets on Rain Dance consistently, and those Heals are between 90K and 110K. My BL is lucky to Crit 2/4 Targets, often getting 1 or none, and my BL Crits top-out at around 90K, with the heals most often being in the 36k - 45k Range. My Crit is at 6000 now. If a Mage's Passive Healing Buff went to 50% (from the current 8%), that would at least be BLs that are in the 50k - 65k Range w/ Crits around 100k+ - now comparable to the Iris' Rain Dance.

And that's the crazy part. Upping our Passive Heal Boost from 8% to 50% would only make us about even with the Heals of an Iris in a Knight or Archers hands. So maybe something more is needed than even that? I don't know. Maybe ditch the Misfortune Talent and add a Crit-Heal talent?

[R23899557]

Too many individual comments to rebut, so here's the full list:

1. Will Destroyer does NOT affect Heals. By all reports it used to at some point, but as of patch 1.66, it's gone.

2. Archers have an innate +20% Critical. Knights have an innate +20% Targeted Healing. Mages only get a +8% Healing, making them the worst Critical Healing (Pet) class in the game.

3. A Critical Knight w/ Iris is the premiere PvP class right now. They have the two highest damage single-target Delphics. Block-Healing + Heal Runes which are about the equivalent of Sunto + Resto already. Iris Rain Dance will Full-Heal them. They get 2 AoEs from Iris to clear even max L80 Troops no-problem. They come out of Iris w/ a readied EDD that will finish most equal BR Mages and Archers at 50%. Their PDef already owned Archers, now Archers have to do the same damage 2x or 3x over to try and drop a Knight. A Mage that used to do well vs Knights will really struggle vs. them now, often having to rely on Holy Seal to either delay Healing or the EDD after Healing. A Critical Knight with Iris and a superior Holy Seal should own Archers even with as much as 15k+ more BR, and should also not have any issues with an equal BR Mage.

Being that the Mage is the weakest DPS class and was the strongest Healing class, I think it's fair that they have their Healing boosted in some way to make them the best healers again. Now I know, people sit there and say, "They've got BL and Resto already! Just carry an Iris!" But that's not the point. Archers and Knights get to add to their skills via the Pet, giving them better-than-Mage-Healing. Mage's should not be beholden to replicating their own skill set just to stay useful / competitive.

Iris' Heals are already superior to the Mage's Heals, by a decent margin. They're far better in the hands of another class. What a Mage needs is to have that Passive Skill of 4%/8% Healing boost upped to 20%/40% or more and then they'll be back to being the Healers they should be. This will also allow them to supplement their skills with a non-Healing pet so that they can be as well rounded as the Iris has made the other two classes. That's Balance.

4. The effectiveness of Iris Heals vs. Mage Healing. As a 125K BR Mage (unbuffed), my Iris will Crit 3/4 targets on Rain Dance consistently, and those Heals are between 90K and 110K. My BL is lucky to Crit 2/4 Targets, often getting 1 or none, and my BL Crits top-out at around 90K, with the heals most often being in the 36k - 45k Range. My Crit is at 6000 now. If a Mage's Passive Healing Buff went to 50% (from the current 8%), that would at least be BLs that are in the 50k - 65k Range w/ Crits around 100k+ - now comparable to the Iris' Rain Dance.

And that's the crazy part. Upping our Passive Heal Boost from 8% to 50% would only make us about even with the Heals of an Iris in a Knight or Archers hands. So maybe something more is needed than even that? I don't know. Maybe ditch the Misfortune Talent and add a Crit-Heal talent?

Agree ... Another thing u can add is the cooldown of Iris (BL and Resto) ... Even a mage, we have more CD than Iris ...

Mage's skill already replaces by Iris ... N plz don't comment about Apollo or Iris should be PATK or Pan MATK .. Think if another class skill is replaced too by slyph ...

[anichaos]

Don't forget to add in Awaken timer.

Iris's Rain Dance have at least 90 second of cooldown.

what was BL and Resto's cooldown?



Because after you cast Rain Dance, it goes into 60 second cooldown, than if you kept playing normally until awaken runs out, you would have to wait for up to 30 seconds before you can awaken to use Rain Dance again.

You don't get instant full Awaken points right after you cast Rain Dance now do you? LOL...

And going out and in of Awaken, you still have to wait for Rain Dance's default 60 second cooldown, it does not get instantly refreshed on a new Awaken.

[R23899557]

Don't forget to add in Awaken timer.

Iris's Rain Dance have at least 90 second of cooldown.

what was BL and Resto's cooldown?

I mean for warm spring inly 10 sec compare to rest which give u more CD time .... and For Rain Dance u can use itu direcly not like Iris Delphic which have timer 10 sec. b4 to cast it ...

[Ice_Ace]

Guys, does your Rain dance sometimes have initial cool down after awaken? Mine goes random, sometimes it has no initial cool down, sometime its has and the cool down number was random, sometimes 14/15 or 9/10. Rain dance is unlike the Delphic skills of sylph which have constant initial cool down. Did you experience this guys?

[anichaos]

Guys, does your Rain dance sometimes have initial cool down after awaken? Mine goes random, sometimes it has no initial cool down, sometime its has and the cool down number was random, sometimes 14/15 or 9/10. Rain dance is unlike the Delphic skills of sylph which have constant initial cool down. Did you experience this guys?

Did you Awaken and cast Rain Dance previously before you went into another Awaken?

If so, the initial cooldown you see is part of Rain Dance's 60 second cooldown.

Which is why I mentioned: And going out and in of Awaken, you still have to wait for Rain Dance's default 60 second cooldown, it does not get instantly refreshed on a new Awaken.

Meaning this: and For Rain Dance u can use itu direcly not like Iris Delphic which have timer 10 sec. b4 to cast it ...

Does not hold true every time.

[Ice_Ace]

Did you Awaken and cast Rain Dance previously before you went into another Awaken?

If so, the initial cooldown you see is part of Rain Dance's 60 second cooldown.

Which is why I mentioned: And going out and in of Awaken, you still have to wait for Rain Dance's default 60 second cooldown, it does not get instantly refreshed on a new Awaken.

Meaning this: and For Rain Dance u can use itu direcly not like Iris Delphic which have timer 10 sec. b4 to cast it ...

Does not hold true every time.

Yes that is what I think too...