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Knight Skills wasted or useless at this stage of the game

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  • #16
    Unless a rogue is OP as hell, like me, then taking away what makes them a rogue leaves them sitting ducks. this would force all rogues to pursue only shadow class, as Combat would be rendered null. taking away the double hit is not a viable option, rogue class uses 2 weapons, so it makes sense... if it were to be nerfed then it would have to be like the Frost skill.. rogues get 1/2 the proc rate (5% vs everyone else's 10%), that would take care of the complaints for that.

    dodge is not really as broken as people think. the dodge % is only a part of the calculation, and i would venture to argue that the displayed % is not the actual dodge stat, but rather just the multiplier of the base stat. players can fairly easily get up to 180% Hit rate (assuming dodge % and hit % are yin yang) which leaves quite a small spread for the rogues to do what their namesake is supposed to do.. be nimble and able to dodge. and a good pvp'r Can find ways around it.

    not all classes should be good vs all classes, there should be variance between strengths and weaknesses vs other classes. of course a knight would want more thorns damage... a rogue would want more dodge, a ranger would like longer daimon shield, but as frustrating as it is, the challenge is what makes it fun. if the common complains from each player were addressed.... Every class would be identical and boring.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Dode. View Post
      Unless a rogue is OP as hell, like me, then taking away what makes them a rogue leaves them sitting ducks. this would force all rogues to pursue only shadow class, as Combat would be rendered null. taking away the double hit is not a viable option, rogue class uses 2 weapons, so it makes sense... if it were to be nerfed then it would have to be like the Frost skill.. rogues get 1/2 the proc rate (5% vs everyone else's 10%), that would take care of the complaints for that.

      dodge is not really as broken as people think. the dodge % is only a part of the calculation, and i would venture to argue that the displayed % is not the actual dodge stat, but rather just the multiplier of the base stat. players can fairly easily get up to 180% Hit rate (assuming dodge % and hit % are yin yang) which leaves quite a small spread for the rogues to do what their namesake is supposed to do.. be nimble and able to dodge. and a good pvp'r Can find ways around it.

      not all classes should be good vs all classes, there should be variance between strengths and weaknesses vs other classes. of course a knight would want more thorns damage... a rogue would want more dodge, a ranger would like longer daimon shield, but as frustrating as it is, the challenge is what makes it fun. if the common complains from each player were addressed.... Every class would be identical and boring.
      As for the Take away double hit comment i was showing the previous commentor that just because we don't like something doesn't mean its broken. Sorry for your confusion Dodette the 3rd.
      And for your comment about a rogue wanting more dodge, well its def ridiculous that all classes can tank the same as a knight stat wise. yet none can dodge like a rogue can. I mean if we gonna compare.
      💎Crystal Saga💎
      ☆Game Name: (s61)kanyo™
      ☆Death Tank
      ☆PvP King at your service
      ☆Class:Knight
      Upgrading a system and seeing the new *look* it gives is one of the best feelings huh? 😅

      “You’re more important than my sword. …But just a little.”
      — Angeal (Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core)

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      • #18
        maybe you are comparing yourself to higher stat players, but at same stat lvls, knights do have more survivability , and the skills to compliment it. sure, with the multitude of systems, players can customize any class toon to bolster their weaknesses. and in the end it comes down to each classes skill builds. rogue is by nature a damage dealer, and has limited survival based skills. while nights arnt really skilled for DPS. I donno i just feel that players will always be unhappy with other classes advantages... I personally hate the rangers daimon shield... passsive invulnerable (and debuff purge) for nearly 50% of the time seems overkill.. but i understand that without it, they would be nerfed hard.

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        • #19
          hi i am a noobey ranger her I would really like the slither skill changed to me it not really that great or beneficial for much other then unstealthing a rouge. Maybe perhaps we could change to like a magic arrow mastery skill; that increase the % boost on magic arrow by 5% or so reduce the mana consumption on conversation by 10% take it from 100% mana used to like 90% mana used. I really dont use slither much as all anymore never really did it. Improved oak blessing is useless as **** the priest buff were put in to add a % to it while ranger still is useless 494 hps when u have 100m hps is useless. i would also like a change to panic keep it as a passive and make it maybe 5% bonus move speed all the time or even 10%
          god forbid don't get me started on shippo kiss arrow rain or ultimate aim. The thing i really dont like is the delay on skills that u use rapid fire your toon stands there and raises it hand for like 1s so don't even get me started on using ultimate aim. Tbh rangers could be alot better then they are now but i like them. If ulitmate aim was change to not have a massive delay and force your toon to stand there for a long *** time i would honestly use that over rapid fire but it's just not viable when you stand there for 3s then the skill goes off. ps shippo kiss has a 4min 20s cd. Also lets mention barskin love me some barskin but hate the 3min cd on it also the stealth arrow skills on ranger frag sucks -chef here

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Dode. View Post
            maybe you are comparing yourself to higher stat players, but at same stat lvls, knights do have more survivability , and the skills to compliment it. sure, with the multitude of systems, players can customize any class toon to bolster their weaknesses. and in the end it comes down to each classes skill builds. rogue is by nature a damage dealer, and has limited survival based skills. while nights arnt really skilled for DPS. I donno i just feel that players will always be unhappy with other classes advantages... I personally hate the rangers daimon shield... passsive invulnerable (and debuff purge) for nearly 50% of the time seems overkill.. but i understand that without it, they would be nerfed hard.
            You miss my sarcasm and preech what i already know -.-
            💎Crystal Saga💎
            ☆Game Name: (s61)kanyo™
            ☆Death Tank
            ☆PvP King at your service
            ☆Class:Knight
            Upgrading a system and seeing the new *look* it gives is one of the best feelings huh? 😅

            “You’re more important than my sword. …But just a little.”
            — Angeal (Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core)

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by xXFumesXx View Post
              hi i am a noobey ranger her I would really like the slither skill changed to me it not really that great or beneficial for much other then unstealthing a rouge. Maybe perhaps we could change to like a magic arrow mastery skill; that increase the % boost on magic arrow by 5% or so reduce the mana consumption on conversation by 10% take it from 100% mana used to like 90% mana used. I really dont use slither much as all anymore never really did it. Improved oak blessing is useless as **** the priest buff were put in to add a % to it while ranger still is useless 494 hps when u have 100m hps is useless. i would also like a change to panic keep it as a passive and make it maybe 5% bonus move speed all the time or even 10%
              god forbid don't get me started on shippo kiss arrow rain or ultimate aim. The thing i really dont like is the delay on skills that u use rapid fire your toon stands there and raises it hand for like 1s so don't even get me started on using ultimate aim. Tbh rangers could be alot better then they are now but i like them. If ulitmate aim was change to not have a massive delay and force your toon to stand there for a long *** time i would honestly use that over rapid fire but it's just not viable when you stand there for 3s then the skill goes off. ps shippo kiss has a 4min 20s cd. Also lets mention barskin love me some barskin but hate the 3min cd on it also the stealth arrow skills on ranger frag sucks -chef here
              I hope minori forwards ur response to the devs! thats the type of stuff they need to see!
              💎Crystal Saga💎
              ☆Game Name: (s61)kanyo™
              ☆Death Tank
              ☆PvP King at your service
              ☆Class:Knight
              Upgrading a system and seeing the new *look* it gives is one of the best feelings huh? 😅

              “You’re more important than my sword. …But just a little.”
              — Angeal (Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core)

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Dode. View Post
                dodge is not really as broken as people think. the dodge % is only a part of the calculation, and i would venture to argue that the displayed % is not the actual dodge stat, but rather just the multiplier of the base stat. players can fairly easily get up to 180% Hit rate (assuming dodge % and hit % are yin yang) which leaves quite a small spread for the rogues to do what their namesake is supposed to do.
                Ok first off: Yes not every class should be good against every class. In fact I think that Knights are too good against Rogues (atleast from my experience) when both players have endgame toons but that doesn´t change the fact that I (personally) hate how dodge works and that I feel like it can easily be a toxic game mechanic.
                Second: %-hit chance and dodge are NOT following a ying-yang principle - mostly due to the rogue frag having 11% dodge (which in itself is not a problem (imo) as long as you ignore divine soul).

                My problem isn´t that you can´t do anything about dodge or that it´s brocken early on or in the midgame. I see the problem problem with the high end players. Once rogues start serously stacking dodge (160% +) you are forced to stack %-hit chance if you realistically want to have a chance at killing them. Personally I´ve got a complete seperate set of items for my divine soul just to be able to handle rogues in GvG.
                Using myself as an example, the highest I can get my %hit chance to is 195% (with "Wing Blessing" I can get close to 220%). If I´m not stacking everything I´ve got on top of another but rather go for raw stats I end up with 137% which is already higher than most players.
                If I´m fighting a rogue with similar stats (basically them having less attack, def and HP than me because I´m a knight) they´ll either
                a.) will either die or try to run away from me (hello %-slow stacking) because I stacked %-hit chance.
                b.) kill me or force me to run away (assuming I get awa fast enough) because I miss like 1/3 to 1/5 the time.

                The problem I see here is that a single class can force you to adapt your build (and sacrifice stats) to it which no other class in this game can arguably do. I don´t see any reason why anybody would change their build against any other class - skills yes, but items ?
                Other classes can´t stack enough %-dodge chance to justify stacking %-hit chance (priests can pretty easily stack a good amount of dodge but they won´t get anywhere close to rogues) against them.

                I´m pretty damn sure that the % doesn´t work as a multiplier as you get increased dodge and hit % based on your raw dodge and hit value.
                Also when I tested this against another player I would´ve had more hit chance (base stat) without the % as multiplier than they had dodge with the % added as multiplier they ended up still being able to dodge. Yes it doesn´t work completely %-based but it most certainly isn´t just a multipliert either.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by R2109499284 View Post

                  Ok first off: Yes not every class should be good against every class. In fact I think that Knights are too good against Rogues (atleast from my experience) when both players have endgame toons but that doesn´t change the fact that I (personally) hate how dodge works and that I feel like it can easily be a toxic game mechanic.
                  Second: %-hit chance and dodge are NOT following a ying-yang principle - mostly due to the rogue frag having 11% dodge (which in itself is not a problem (imo) as long as you ignore divine soul).

                  My problem isn´t that you can´t do anything about dodge or that it´s brocken early on or in the midgame. I see the problem problem with the high end players. Once rogues start serously stacking dodge (160% +) you are forced to stack %-hit chance if you realistically want to have a chance at killing them. Personally I´ve got a complete seperate set of items for my divine soul just to be able to handle rogues in GvG.
                  Using myself as an example, the highest I can get my %hit chance to is 195% (with "Wing Blessing" I can get close to 220%). If I´m not stacking everything I´ve got on top of another but rather go for raw stats I end up with 137% which is already higher than most players.
                  If I´m fighting a rogue with similar stats (basically them having less attack, def and HP than me because I´m a knight) they´ll either
                  a.) will either die or try to run away from me (hello %-slow stacking) because I stacked %-hit chance.
                  b.) kill me or force me to run away (assuming I get awa fast enough) because I miss like 1/3 to 1/5 the time.

                  The problem I see here is that a single class can force you to adapt your build (and sacrifice stats) to it which no other class in this game can arguably do. I don´t see any reason why anybody would change their build against any other class - skills yes, but items ?
                  Other classes can´t stack enough %-dodge chance to justify stacking %-hit chance (priests can pretty easily stack a good amount of dodge but they won´t get anywhere close to rogues) against them.

                  I´m pretty damn sure that the % doesn´t work as a multiplier as you get increased dodge and hit % based on your raw dodge and hit value.
                  Also when I tested this against another player I would´ve had more hit chance (base stat) without the % as multiplier than they had dodge with the % added as multiplier they ended up still being able to dodge. Yes it doesn´t work completely %-based but it most certainly isn´t just a multipliert either.
                  Rogues also do sacrifice alot of raw stats to get that " high dodge % "
                  maybe not for frag , which obv u can almost counter with just a slayers necklace ( 11% dodge vs 8% hit rate ) but then u have to use some useless ring and u can't use peerless items in divine soul although they give WAY ALOT MORE STATS than almost every equip in a complete set at least up to malefic , u can't use the necklace and u can't use the boots because they don't have any dodge % in them.

                  so basically u gotta stick with just a helmet and an armor giving away all the possible " raw " stats that could come from the peerless set
                  idk , u know

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                  • #24
                    Remake some skills please and please remove those limiters(max damage) on skills . Some skills are pretty much useless because of those limiters . And update out-dated events like Training Grounds - Redemption - And more . Being level180+ and doing those events is kinda useless now .

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by payatskie View Post
                      Remake some skills please and please remove those limiters(max damage) on skills . Some skills are pretty much useless because of those limiters . And update out-dated events like Training Grounds - Redemption - And more . Being level180+ and doing those events is kinda useless now .
                      The request for skills to be revamped has already been forwarded. I will forward the suggestion to update Training Grounds and Redemption. If there are other events please, provide the specifics thank you!
                      If you have a problem, need assistance and
                      we can't help? Submit a ticket with R2 here
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by *Minori* View Post

                        The request for skills to be revamped has already been forwarded. I will forward the suggestion to update Training Grounds and Redemption. If there are other events please, provide the specifics thank you!
                        update wrath and blood please , getting 145 patk a day isnt that much even if it multiplies...

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by mihonaco View Post

                          update wrath and blood please , getting 145 patk a day isnt that much even if it multiplies...
                          I will create a guide detailing how the new system works within the next week or so. Please, be patient in the meantime!
                          If you have a problem, need assistance and
                          we can't help? Submit a ticket with R2 here
                          Please, view the bug report list here - CS1
                          Forum Rules are located here
                          Please, view the bug report list here - CS2
                          Please, note my inbox is broken. Post your issue on the forums. I'll do my best to assist.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by *Minori* View Post

                            I will create a guide detailing how the new system works within the next week or so. Please, be patient in the meantime!
                            o.O so iam wrong ? ok tyt and ty

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