One striker or two?

[Painindaback]

Build 1 having both LE Ner is a waste of resource. buff from Ner will be wasted. yes u get the rage, but with a yellow or red dragon totem, there is plenty rage already. My conclusion on IRB is Fail. IRB is really suitable for free or light casher.

Build 2 having 2 strikers? there simply not enough resource for both. it is a path to guaranteed fail. on build 2, HE LE and main don't need any resource? Having all 4 +main is really a dream build for someone like Burning, ice , ph, or oneee2. No way we can afford that as right now.

Could you just explain how is having both LE and Ner waste of resources? Having LE already, means that Nereida doesn't need much invested in her except blessing (before LE, you needed Nereida to have high agility.. with her you don't). Yes, you do use ruby herosouls on her.. but then again if you check your second comment: "having 2 strikers? there simply not enough resource for both".. so tell me, what is more useless? Nereida with no resources, giving 20%+ DEF to whole party (and 15/20/25% ATK with fire totem if you're using it) or a mildly upgraded 2nd striker (which would take resources from your main striker to be effective)?
Your comments would make more sense if you don't contradict yourself. As you simply said that all builds are fail, except having 4 built up heroes (you could add your name there as well, as you have actually spent as much resources as burning).

[MagusRynd]

he/she doesnt think LE+NER is good. he doesnt think 2 strikers are good. i think hes an advocate of Main+Hecate :P

[Aistian_S17]

guys u shouldn't pay much attention to obvious trolling

[AvatarXyz]

I think that he is advocating a Rage setup in which LE provides 50 a turn and the dragon totem provides 25 and you main rages every other turn.
That will keep LE and ES raging until the dragon totem runs out (which should be long enough to decide things in pvp)
It seems simple and robust. Not perfect, but good enough for most situations.
It only requires you to keep two heros+main alive and unstunned.

[Zivatar]

This is my PVE mode but it works really fine... im might thinking on keeping Amazon... i just one hit every hero with it till 2M Hp.... just that damn reborn i hate.

[Zivatar]

Btw... about dodge... Chinese servers aren't using DODGE... I have no idea which way they are playing, seems to be MAXING damage and maxing HIT. So, as I saw there - none of them has dodge gems. They are playing different meta.
Btw, chinese players are LE active users, can't say about rage build, but they go for it since they are mostly fee players I think.

If you have hit over 16k you will hit everything even those who have 22k dodge or a little more. If you have the right resources you dont need charm totem.

[Zivatar]

http://s96-loa.r2games.com/share.php...35457864eec59c

The final moments are the intresting part... the enemy hero has 20k dodge and my Amazon is on 14.500Hit and 100% success on hitting. When i have the time i will allocate my Amazon to the middle so he can 1 hit the enemy hero. Dunno if it would be a good idea to replace Goddless Wolff with Earthshaker and keep Amazon (Originally she is a PVE hero)

[MagusRynd]

I think that he is advocating a Rage setup in which LE provides 50 a turn and the dragon totem provides 25 and you main rages every other turn.
That will keep LE and ES raging until the dragon totem runs out (which should be long enough to decide things in pvp)
It seems simple and robust. Not perfect, but good enough for most situations.
It only requires you to keep two heros+main alive and unstunned.

doesnt LE + dragon totem mean two or even three strikers? which he also didnt rate high in his same comment

[AvatarXyz]

It could be LE, ES, Main, meatshield, hecate. I don't remember if he is fond of hecate.

[R2471526]

http://s96-loa.r2games.com/share.php...35457864eec59c

The final moments are the intresting part... the enemy hero has 20k dodge and my Amazon is on 14.500Hit and 100% success on hitting. When i have the time i will allocate my Amazon to the middle so he can 1 hit the enemy hero. Dunno if it would be a good idea to replace Goddless Wolff with Earthshaker and keep Amazon (Originally she is a PVE hero)

Beast AH!!!!

[MagusRynd]

I could be LE, ES, Main, meatshield, hecate. I don't remember if he is fond of hecate.

quite some time since i last heard that :P it was mainstream when this game was in its early days :P

[Painindaback]

If you have hit over 16k you will hit everything even those who have 22k dodge or a little more. If you have the right resources you dont need charm totem.

I'm surprised people still can't see the real reason why charm totem is such a nice addition. Maybe once you get to higher BR fights you'd realize it.
And, AvatarXyz, if one wants.. he could use Nereida as a meatshield. The difference being that she could revive twice in a battle and give DEF buff to your whole party. While another meatshield... warrior? 50 rage to your back row... most of the time when they are at full rage. Maybe a rogue? Good reflect ability... never lasts until he's hit with a normal attack.

[AvatarXyz]

I experimented with Astral here for a ES only Rage loop:

http://s183-loa.r2games.com/share.ph...35457a76629f34

With Divine Hunter I would not need a Dragon Totem and I could keep Thunderlord Raging as well.

But I hate that guy and I can't bring myself to get him when LE is available.

Thunderlord is effective first round. I could probably put him front row for that.

[Raphangelo]

25 rage for first 8 turns, and after we have like 17 turns to go without dragon totem... So as I said multiple times dragon totem is not replacement for Astral hunter as the lowest border (giving rage to whole backrow, but for backrow only! what is sad) and Nereida as best one (giving 50 rage to whole party including front row, which will give 101 rage in conjuction with LE).
And now the question to Mr. Smart saying rage party is a fail: Main Acting every turn with skill isn't OP? Isn't it replacing the striker you so wanna ADD in your party instead of nereida?

Anyway... in long run we will see which build is better. For sure, the guys are taking 1st place in Tournament can not use IRB 2... Cause their heroes and main are too OP even without it. And those guys went the way of spending tonns of real money to be so strong even without IRB 2. But I think, that soon the situation will change. 1-2 months ago like 5-10 people had dodge over 15k. Now the count of people with 20k dodge is over 50 for sure.
Same wih rage build. 2 months ago we had only few people with IRB 1. 1 month ago we have over 10 people having IRB 2. Present time showing we have more and more of them.
Game evolving itself, so the builds ruled before the IRB 2 started to be developed may be outplayed in very short time already. I saw plenty of battles where EX winners (with hecate, ES, Astral hunter) losing to Dodge + IRB 2 builds.


Btw... about dodge... Chinese servers aren't using DODGE... I have no idea which way they are playing, seems to be MAXING damage and maxing HIT. So, as I saw there - none of them has dodge gems. They are playing different meta.
Btw, chinese players are LE active users, can't say about rage build, but they go for it since they are mostly fee players I think.

25 rage for first 8 turns using orange dragon totem is sufficient enough.

Let say you have LE and Nereida. Do you really think your Nereida will be alive more than 3-4turns? Are you planning to have 400k BR Nereida? LE+Nereida for 100 rage for everyone is amazing for world boss, gauntlet and others in PvE
in PvP, it is a different story, none of your enemies will have heroes that hit 1 person only. NONE.

Also doing LE+Nereida requires ALOT of blessed stone. Just alot. LE needs.... +21 right ? and Nereida +18?
1) That is too much blessed stones for Nereida, with ONLy purpose. Let's face it, only person that needs +100 rage in your party is your main and also your Nereida. Of course there are some people who needs 75 rage to do stuff (Claw + Luna etc).
2) Having 1-2 striker is just better overall, and you already spent +18 for Nereida.
3) Main is just a tank. Not a striker. Unless you have hunter main, then go for LE+Nereida.

If you have 75-rage heroes and want to have loop for them. Get astral hunter? Astral hunter + Main front row and LE + 2 other 75-rage heroes in the backline should be good enough.


If you plan on having your PvP fights more than 8 turns, well I have no advices for you. (well if you are hunter, use LE+Nereida).



LE+Orange totem rage build has 1 purpose. Give 50 rage for your party. That is it. Hence using ES/Thunder Lord makes perfect sense. I treat my main as a tank, so it doesn't matter what damage he does.

Personally I thought about LE + Astral hunter. But then again, Just like Nereida, Astral hunter wouldn't survive 8 turns or more. Hence you lose the rage loop.


I would rather have 1 reliable rage loop of 50 for 8 turns (LE usually lives longer) compared to having 75 rage or 100 rage loop that lasts 3-4 turns at most. IF astral hunter/Nereida survives longer than that = you are fighting low BR or lvl 50s.



About dodge, I don't do dodge anymore in PvP tournaments. I decrease my dodge to about 10k from 20k+. I go back to high dodge for PvE.





Lastly, people asked about having # of strikers. Here is my answer if you are not hunter main
1) ES is your steak. He is your #1.
2) Your LE is fries on the side. As long as your steak is good your LE will do good things for ES
3) Your Main is salad. you probably won't eat it. Hes a tank. He exists to support your ES's damage. If you plan on doing tank/damage on your main, well then, good luck with that.
4) Your Hectate is desert. If you got to a cheap place you might get fortune cookie. Hence, your hectate is just there for 2-3 turn survival/take free hits from enemy ES. He takes garbage scraps. IF hectate gets dragonsoul revive off good for him. 100k BR Hectate is fine.
5) Your 5th hero is whatever. Use Mermaid if you want. Preferbly a staff-hero just for dragonsoul revive annoyance.
Totem: Orange dragon.

If your are hunter main, you are just born like a prince, or bill gate is your grandfather.
1) Your main is a steak. Your main will pretty much do anything. a) do amazing damage to all 5 hereos using multishot. b) Tank so unfairly with free aquarius dragonsoul.
2) Your LE is still your fries
3) Your ES just became a salad. He doesn't need extreme high BR. All enemies have lower than 100% hp from turn 1, your ES will be doing extra damage already. Just get enough hit to kill backline. If your main is insane, enemy should have less than 30% hp, so its 100% guarantee kill with ES even if ES has 100k PATK.
4) Your Nereida replaces your hectate. Your Nereida doesn't need high BR. Just insanely high +18 hero upgrade. Give her revive armor. You want LE+Nereida combo for at least 2-3 turns. If your fight doesn't end in 2-3 turns your main is weak. Your amazing hunter main should kill everyone by 2-3 turns along with ES's assistance. (maybe kill all 4 hereoes and leave enemy tank alive.)
5) This is your filler spot. You can have Celestial Maiden to remove debuffs on your main. Think of all possible 'supportive' heroes that can do meaningful stuff with 10k BR. Could use guardian to reduce front line DEF. Can use any staff hero for tank. Can use dagger hero for a chance to stun enemy front row using dragonsouls. Be creative.

oh Totem = fire totem to do even more insane damage.



bottomline is, it is all about your main and your build. You want your IRB and think thats best? Go for it. I doubt that your IRB will last 3turns+, but during that 3 turns and if you are hunter main and can kill all or 4 of your enemies? IRB is worth it.
I have my own "IRB" for 50-rage heroes. So I am happy with that. I used that +18 on Nereida into one of my heroes instead.

For my PvE, I use LE, Nereida and Astral child for WB/gauntlet. I still do close to 200M damage, so I am ok with it. I am planning to get Astral hunter so that I can have Astral hunter+LE+Main+ES+Thunder Lord. Hopefully I can do more to 1 shot gauntlet dragons.

[Raphangelo]

Thank you, verfy helpful.
I am a Palladin. The Wraithstrike can at least reduce Pdef for ES. And the ATK boost is good for everyone.
So if you don't want to line up es, le, main and you don't want to use the backrow bottom, I assume that you put main off center?

Ya so I have
ES - whatever
LE - nothing
Hectate - main.

Hectate and 'whatever' can be swapped.
ES and LE can be swapped

Either hectate/whatever will 100% get hit by enemy ES (regardless hunter main or not)
Hunter main will 100% give debuff to hectate. This includes red helm debuff, red ring stun, or red pants rage drain.
If enemy has mysthic/berserker and hitting your main+backline, your hectate will take damage, and then enemy ES will attack hectate.

Either way, your hectate is taking all the dirt.


and lastly, I treat my hectate pretty bad. I used to have gems for Main,LE,ES only. Hectate/whatever were completely naked for awhile.