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  • Originally posted by daunapu View Post
    Why do you insist to play stupid? You know there are other ways to get PDEF than gems? Obviously he means 1 gem is enough for him to have 52k pdef in total, I have 56k without any gem or astral, just from gear....

    Thank you danapu. I knew you were smart.

    ON 3 OTHER POSTS HERE, I stated, if ANYONE did NOT know how to get 52k defense with 95k attack and almost NO gems for defense... PM ME. I will explain this.

    I tried to help the OP. He simply needs dimensions. He is not absent of defenses like the player I fought in BG with 95k attack 52k def(yet still winning fights COMPLETELY due to dimensions and resists)

    DIMENSIONS > DEFENSES PERIOD

    Originally posted by MrFancyPants View Post
    This thread is kinda baffling. The mechanics of atk vs. def and res vs. reduce res are very well understood at this point, so it's actually mathematically provable what's better in any situation. HumbleSlayer's not really wrong, since in so many situations, higher res is the more important factor, but Arlad's completely correct in his general point (def + res > no def + res) that I can only attribute the continued debate to a desire to flame.

    Edit: As SlowPlay pointed out, Arlad used terrible examples, and in that one, it's even wrong. When you have higher def than your opponent's atk, it's irrelevant, and the game uses 10% of the atk value instead of the difference. 15k - 10k less 80% is 1k, but 10% of 15k is 1.5k, so the res is better in that instance.

    Let me point out the flaws in focusing on resistance and ignoring defense, though:
    1. There is no reason to focus, there is no trade-off. There are essentially no resources that are shared between building def and res. Except for time spent playing, obviously, but building res is far more time-intensive than anything specific to def. You have to sacrifice other things to get higher def, so it's a completely different question what's better to have.
    2. High res will only protect you against one sylph type, and permanently high res in a specific element is essentially impossible. Eventually, you will have to switch elements, and those herc users you were killing will 1-shot you with their delphics, unless you build up mdef to a level of survivability.
    3. Most important, res and def are complementary, so they will combine to reduce your damage.

    If you have 60k def against someone with 95k atk, and you can get an extra 5k def from somewhere (like a couple of gems), you're gaining around 15% damage reduction. If you have around 300 higher res than your opponent's res reduce, then another 80 res will also give you 15% more reduction. One may be easier to get than the other, but why not go for both?

    The marginal value of one more point of res will remain high (unless will crystals suddenly become very cheap), while the value of one more point of def is going to keep dropping over time as stats go higher, but right now it's still a long ways from zero.
    +1............
    Last edited by EsmeWeatherwax; 03-04-2015, 03:12 AM. Reason: post merge
    Archer hoarder

    Comment


    • Originally posted by kittyariel View Post
      You say use example of a defense where it is higher than opponents attack. The number i keep seeing is 95k attack......... Lets say its an archer vs archer fight. If the first (stronger archer) has 95k defense.... then that archer's attack would be around 150k. If that player faced a player with 95k attack and 50k defense the first player would AFK the 2nd player. The stats on a player with 150k attack 95k defenses woudl also have about 700k HP. It wouldnt matter how much resistance or dimensions or ANY stat on the 2nd player.
      i hate it when people are being ignorant like this.
      use your imagination, it doesnt have to be a real scenario: between 2 players, with SAME ATTACK AND HP, but THE DIFFERENCE ONLY ON DEFENSE AND RES.

      Now let me repeat for 100001th times: Having good defense AND good res is better than relying on res only.
      now who are stupid enough to say it was wrong?

      there's a cupcake who keep saying something obvious like res > def, but ALWAYS DENY ME WHEN I SAID DEF + RES >> RES.
      Last edited by Arlad; 03-04-2015, 08:03 AM.
      Originally posted by Wraithraiser
      Welcome to R2 forums. Where quality is nonexistent and quantity is only measured in the number of whines a single day can produce.

      Comment


      • Res+def+hp >> def+res.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
          Res+def+hp >> def+res.
          i would love to give +rep for your witty sarcasm.
          bravo.
          Originally posted by Wraithraiser
          Welcome to R2 forums. Where quality is nonexistent and quantity is only measured in the number of whines a single day can produce.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
            Res+def+hp >> def+res.
            cash+cash+cash>> cash+cash >> cash >> non-cash
            Edit: on topic, res plays a big role in fights, I have really low def and with big electro res, opponent's sylph attacks are just scratches. High HP+ high RES +high block +GA is nice, better then high def build . BUT it considerably lowers your BR. If you can afford it go for it.
            Last edited by ancev; 03-04-2015, 11:48 AM.
            IGN: AncientEvil
            Server: EU-271+merged
            Class: Archer
            Getting less Evil and more Ancient every day.

            Comment


            • nobody talks about the %reduce damage from godess blessing and talent reduce dmg% and knight passive skill and medaillon you cant compare def/mdef and resistance if u dont count in %damage reduction if you factor all this is a bad *** match calculation not just 100kpatk 90kdef ill do 10k damage lol

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Arlad View Post
                i hate it when people are being ignorant like this.
                use your imagination, it doesnt have to be a real scenario: between 2 players, with SAME ATTACK AND HP, but THE DIFFERENCE ONLY ON DEFENSE AND RES.

                Now let me repeat for 100001th times: Having good defense AND good res is better than relying on res only.
                now who are stupid enough to say it was wrong?

                there's a cupcake who keep saying something obvious like res > def, but ALWAYS DENY ME WHEN I SAID DEF + RES >> RES.
                ignorant is creating an argument that is not even there. Of course 100% of time resistance and dimensions are > defense stats on similarly stat player..... Also of course if you have cash + every stat available higher than any opponent you face you will win

                1 thing matters between similarly stat players. DIMENSIONS/resistance. How do you create an argument out of nothing and look stupid doing it? You broke the mold

                use your imagination, it doesnt have to be a real scenario: between 2 players, with SAME ATTACK AND HP, but THE DIFFERENCE ONLY ON DEFENSE AND RES.
                if two players are same attack and HP and the only difference is defense and resistance, the player with a much greater resistance will win almost every time. Its been said by 9 different posters here already. We all know this. There is no argument
                Last edited by kittyariel; 03-04-2015, 05:46 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tony944 View Post
                  nobody talks about the %reduce damage from godess blessing and talent reduce dmg% and knight passive skill and medaillon you cant compare def/mdef and resistance if u dont count in %damage reduction if you factor all this is a bad *** match calculation not just 100kpatk 90kdef ill do 10k damage lol
                  Tony, i think most people here are at the level where Goddess blessing is level 10 gold and around a +5. Also I am sure most people with stats like the OP have the new medal. Those two are just a given but you are right, they matter

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by kittyariel View Post
                    ignorant is creating an argument that is not even there. Of course 100% of time resistance and dimensions are > defense stats on similarly stat player..... Also of course if you have cash + every stat available higher than any opponent you face you will win

                    1 thing matters between similarly stat players. DIMENSIONS/resistance. How do you create an argument out of nothing and look stupid doing it? You broke the mold

                    use your imagination, it doesnt have to be a real scenario: between 2 players, with SAME ATTACK AND HP, but THE DIFFERENCE ONLY ON DEFENSE AND RES.
                    if two players are same attack and HP and the only difference is defense and resistance, the player with a much greater resistance will win almost every time. Its been said by 9 different posters here already. We all know this. There is no argument
                    Well not really, lets take the lv1 new med + maxed goddess @lv5 on both (with the passives of -dmg taken maxed too), both having the same att/hp ratings
                    (both also being archers) but
                    player a) has 100k patt, 50k mdef, 1k electro RES and 400 will b) has 100k patt, 100k mdef, 700 electro RES and 600 will and both using herc.

                    By your logic player a) would have the edge since he has 300 higher electro (which is pretty nice) compared to b) but leaving out of the calculations the will
                    ratings of both is literally negating a vital part of the game now. With this example my bets would be on player b) if we talk that both have the same skill playing
                    archer and timing stuff so yea Arlad has a good point that neglecting raw stats can be bad most of the time too, finding a balance btw all these defenses is the
                    way to go imo unless you are on zebq/ashira/pipster level, then just go out and steamroll people.

                    And i think what arlad is trying to say is high def/res > high res anyday and this is just pure logic lol, its like saying low patt + high patt in sylph > high patt +
                    high patt on sylph, makes no sense.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Littlelyseria View Post
                      Well not really, lets take the lv1 new med + maxed goddess @lv5 on both (with the passives of -dmg taken maxed too), both having the same att/hp ratings
                      (both also being archers) but
                      player a) has 100k patt, 50k mdef, 1k electro RES and 400 will b) has 100k patt, 100k mdef, 700 electro RES and 600 will and both using herc.

                      By your logic player a) would have the edge since he has 300 higher electro (which is pretty nice) compared to b) but leaving out of the calculations the will
                      ratings of both is literally negating a vital part of the game now. With this example my bets would be on player b) if we talk that both have the same skill playing
                      archer and timing stuff so yea Arlad has a good point that neglecting raw stats can be bad most of the time too, finding a balance btw all these defenses is the
                      way to go imo unless you are on zebq/ashira/pipster level, then just go out and steamroll people.

                      And i think what arlad is trying to say is high def/res > high res anyday and this is just pure logic lol, its like saying low patt + high patt in sylph > high patt +
                      high patt on sylph, makes no sense.
                      Res red is still a part of res, when we talk about res being more helpfull then some def stat we include will (check post behind when we were telling to op to remove some def and switch it with block and improve his res/will). Now arlad got upset somehow because we told op that his high def is kinda useless and keep sayin that it's better to have high def and hig res, once again thanks for nothing but that's not helpfull for op. Op needed to lower his def to get some block which is way more helpfull than some def and improve his res. Now as mrfancy said those 2 thing are not related so op can fix both of them but someone totally legit said that if he had to focus on something, he'd have to focus on his res instead of his def which is true. Jeez 10 pages of litteraly nothing, gotta love it.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
                        Res red is still a part of res, when we talk about res being more helpfull then some def stat we include will (check post behind when we were telling to op to remove some def and switch it with block and improve his res/will). Now arlad got upset somehow because we told op that his high def is kinda useless and keep sayin that it's better to have high def and hig res, once again thanks for nothing but that's not helpfull for op. Op needed to lower his def to get some block which is way more helpfull than some def and improve his res. Now as mrfancy said those 2 thing are not related so op can fix both of them but someone totally legit said that if he had to focus on something, he'd have to focus on his res instead of his def which is true. Jeez 10 pages of litteraly nothing, gotta love it.
                        Well if you had to choose btw the 2, i agree that at higher lvls of damage, elemental RES does the job more than raw stats but as u said, OP could just modify
                        his raw stats a bit to add block + raise his will/res, doesnt have to choose when he can do both and have a good raw stats/RES rating.

                        Comment


                        • what i can sa about this post is, in same br and same pdef, mdef, sylph resistance and br
                          matters next, who ever has higher resistance and sylpf first wins but if ur openent has anti
                          electro like his on hades but his resistance and dimensopns are on electro, u will eventually lose if u cant damage him at all or u just deal equal damage since gaia has lifestael and u are only onto damage(hercules)

                          Comment


                          • Bottom line is that i have a hell load of work left for me to do:
                            - increase my res red
                            - increase my normal res
                            - i'm way behind with my astrals (goddess, determination...)
                            - way behind with my stables as well (500 lvls to go on endurance, 50 on defense and not to forget intellect which is on lvl 9/555)
                            - holy forge
                            - and gems (i will take slowplay's advice and convert my pdef gems to block and see how it goes)
                            So, thank you all for your input! Probably i'll be back with improvements in 1 year...that's how long it will take me to get in line all my deficits lol (not to count all the new stuff that will come out by then)
                            Server: S19 Europe
                            Class: Archer
                            BR: 2200 K
                            Sylph: Venus, Hecate, Zeus, Triton, Medusa
                            Nickname: W T F TotEu

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by TotEu View Post
                              Bottom line is that i have a hell load of work left for me to do:
                              - increase my res red
                              - increase my normal res
                              - i'm way behind with my astrals (goddess, determination...)
                              - way behind with my stables as well (500 lvls to go on endurance, 50 on defense and not to forget intellect which is on lvl 9/555)
                              - holy forge
                              - and gems (i will take slowplay's advice and convert my pdef gems to block and see how it goes)
                              So, thank you all for your input! Probably i'll be back with improvements in 1 year...that's how long it will take me to get in line all my deficits lol (not to count all the new stuff that will come out by then)
                              If i'm not mistaken you're a fairly new player, wartune is all about time (or you can buy time with cash, but that's another story).

                              Comment


                              • Resistances work like intensity and tenacity. They have no meaning if you don't have good enough base stats. That says it all.

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