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lol keep it coming bro
Originally posted by AdaJames View PostWhat's wrong is the pollution to the human genepool.
Seriously, "appropriating someone else's culture"? WTH? Have you even considered the rammifiation of someone actually coming up with that as something to be outraged about? And YOU dare to call someone else a hillbilly? Really?
Someone get the chlorine already!
IN reality the first "humans" that could make babies would be the first culprits of "polluting" their genetic lines and it just hasn't stopped with any generation of people yet, so I think its unavoidable so long as the species reproduces genetically...because everyone is genetically unique so every time a baby is conceived to two parents its no longer a pure example of EITHER of their genetic "perfection". Cloning may be the answer to the purity issue, but I don't think its a viable nor preferable reproduction method ..WHY are we "purifying" the genome again?
In other thoughts, cultural appropriations can be characterized as pretty much the communal versions of: identity theft, non-consensual usage of likenesses/identity,and or intellectual property.Plain Theft misusage and misrepresentation of a tools origins or purposes. Thats an example of my definition so far when it comes to the offensive forms of it.***The terms I've presented are for analogical purposes and not meant to be an exhaustive list of legalist applications.*** These are meant to illustrate the social ramifications and frustrations already experienced by those who feel they or their culture has been exploited or abused by unjust cultural appropriations. My point here is that CA can be just as valid an objection as any other objection such as forillaging, blatant disrespect or mockery.
IF I disrespect you and your family heritage, if I catch you by surprise or have any power over you at your joib or social club, you will not be happy. You will have an ethical/moral right to call me out for it..Maybe I don't have a to give a $#!^ in some places, but not giving a **** for no reasons is usually an antisocial and counterproductive attitude. But noone is likely to question your right to complain/protest about it. that is essentially an analogy of what your doing here and what privileged social class defenders and status quo reactionaries have res surged for a few years now in response to general demands of respect equality/equity for all population classified groups...They claim it is a form of censorship to demand social awareness/responsibility/refinement from institutions, but yet quite hypocritically the reactionaries tend to denounce the very action of so many people "complaining" about these issues. But here with me, as I've done with Melv earlier, I'll just reiterate on the point someone made to me when I didn't understand Cultural Appropriation as well as I think I do now: IF you don't even have the decency and respect for others to respect their feelings about their own heritage, then why should they have any regard for your objections to THEIR right and feelings to object? Its the very kind of social stalemate that chauvinism and disrespect usually fosters. I guess we can all just go take a walk, as Lou Reed once suggested in a song.
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Originally posted by R27377783 View PostSO how do you/who is polluting this "gene pool?." who gets to decide what are the best genetic sequences,YOU? and why? I'd take the bet that your sequences would eventually selected for removal from the pool. You can't predict the evolutionary future, and none of us alive now or in any other era actually had anything to do with creating/designing gene pool by scientific intent so I don't really see what criteria we could use (or allow others) to determine the perfect or "unpolluted" version. Conceptually the "gene pool" is just that..a pool whatever is there, is there, it has never been pure and will never be pure because genetic structures have a tendency to prefer "diversity", not "purity". Unless I'm just not getting the correct usage of your term "purity." What do you exactly mean by that? To determine what I think you mean, we'd need to know the exact genetic markers for the first humankind's(something we'd actually have to also DEFINE to everyone on the committee's agreement.)
IN reality the first "humans" that could make babies would be the first culprits of "polluting" their genetic lines and it just hasn't stopped with any generation of people yet, so I think its unavoidable so long as the species reproduces genetically...because everyone is genetically unique so every time a baby is conceived to two parents its no longer a pure example of EITHER of their genetic "perfection". Cloning may be the answer to the purity issue, but I don't think its a viable nor preferable reproduction method ..WHY are we "purifying" the genome again?
You don't need to go into the details explaining the details on the human condition.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostIn other thoughts, cultural appropriations can be characterized as pretty much the communal versions of: identity theft, non-consensual usage of likenesses/identity,and or intellectual property.
You can't in one hand say that we are all genetically and socially linked, and in the other hand say that certain aspects of culture belongs specifically to one culture. No culture heritage of look, song, dance, art, whatever belongs solely to one culture, for the exact same reasons you stated; cultures and people intermingle. There is therefore, essentially, no such thing as cultural appropriation.... sort of.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostPlain Theft misusage and misrepresentation of a tools origins or purposes. Thats an example of my definition so far when it comes to the offensive forms of it.***The terms I've presented are for analogical purposes and not meant to be an exhaustive list of legalist applications.*** These are meant to illustrate the social ramifications and frustrations already experienced by those who feel they or their culture has been exploited or abused by unjust cultural appropriations. My point here is that CA can be just as valid an objection as any other objection such as forillaging, blatant disrespect or mockery.
For example. Say society 'A' invaded society 'B' a long time ago. When society 'A' would attack, they would have a very specific battle cry. This would make it difficult for society 'B' to coordinate their defenses when society 'A' attacked. So, so society 'B' decided to use war-drums, so their soldiers could drown out the sound of the war-cries, and coordinate their defenses better. Over time, the war-cry and the battle-drum become integral parts of their culture.
Does the war-cry and the battle-drum belong to society 'A' and 'B' respectively? No. Not in any sense.
For one, society 'B' developed their tactic as a direct result of the society 'A's actions. That is to say, it would not exist without them. Society 'A's war-cry developed long before that, and it's exact origins are unknown. All of this is pointless debate, because society 'C' and 'D' that lived over a thousand miles away, also developed war-cries and battle-drums that were almost identical.
These are also, real world examples, if you're so interested.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostIF I disrespect you and your family heritage, if I catch you by surprise or have any power over you at your joib or social club, you will not be happy. You will have an ethical/moral right to call me out for it..Maybe I don't have a to give a $#!^ in some places, but not giving a **** for no reasons is usually an antisocial and counterproductive attitude.
Originally posted by R27377783 View Postthat is essentially an analogy of what your doing here and what privileged social class defenders and status quo reactionaries have res surged for a few years now in response to general demands of respect equality/equity for all population classified groups...They claim it is a form of censorship to demand social awareness/responsibility/refinement from institutions, but yet quite hypocritically the reactionaries tend to denounce the very action of so many people "complaining" about these issues.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostBut here with me, as I've done with Melv earlier, I'll just reiterate on the point someone made to me when I didn't understand Cultural Appropriation as well as I think I do now: IF you don't even have the decency and respect for others to respect their feelings about their own heritage, then why should they have any regard for your objections to THEIR right and feelings to object? Its the very kind of social stalemate that chauvinism and disrespect usually fosters. I guess we can all just go take a walk, as Lou Reed once suggested in a song.Last edited by Alsatia01; 04-14-2016, 04:07 PM.
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Originally posted by Alsatia01 View PostI think Ada was just essentially saying..... "You're an idiot".
Originally posted by Alsatia01 View PostYou don't need to go into the details explaining the details on the human condition.
Originally posted by Alsatia01 View PostNo.
You can't in one hand say that we are all genetically and socially linked, and in the other hand say that certain aspects of culture belongs specifically to one culture. No culture heritage of look, song, dance, art, whatever belongs solely to one culture, for the exact same reasons you stated; cultures and people intermingle. There is therefore, essentially, no such thing as cultural appropriation.... sort of.
Even though that is generally true, being a social reality does NOT automatically make something nonexistent and social realities are capable of having weight in (of course) societies,historical contexts and in courts. Does the social reality of Navaho "Indian" tribe's existence mean that there is any definite, permanent and significant genetic distinction between them and the rest of humanity? No. But...does that fact mean that they can't have cultural attributes that are distinct to their tribe as a matter of historic fact (as a cultural identity /social reality?) Also,No.
Originally posted by Alsatia01 View PostHow about a thought experiment.
Originally posted by Alsatia01 View PostDoes the war-cry and the battle-drum belong to society 'A' and 'B' respectively? No. Not in any sense.
Originally posted by Alsatia01 View PostFor one, society 'B' developed their tactic as a direct result of the society 'A's actions. That is to say, it would not exist without them. Society 'A's war-cry developed long before that, and it's exact origins are unknown. All of this is pointless debate, because society 'C' and 'D' that lived over a thousand miles away, also developed war-cries and battle-drums that were almost identical.
Originally posted by Alsatia01 View PostYou do not have the right to never be offended. At least not where I live.
They don't give a **** whose culture they offend because its not their own culture that is being disrespected or appropriated, and apparently they want to have the right to not have to hear the complaints either. SO their attitude is: **** those people..but they don't like it if the reply is **** you too. The big term for it is "privileged entitlement".
Originally posted by Alsatia01 View PostPeople asking for equality is not the same as you believing your culture belongs to only you (and the people of your 'culture').
Originally posted by Alsatia01 View PostName one piece of 'heritage' that belongs solely to one culture, or group of peoples.
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Genetic purity? WTH? Stop making things up. I don't talk about genetic purity. Never have.
The only one with strawmen is you. Your previous post is full of strawmen. All you do is deliberately miscontrue what others say and then go on a rant about how oppressed you are.
Get a life, fool! Most of us don't give a flying rat's arse what you think or how you live your life. You are nothing to us, as are your feelings of "oppression".
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And again, why do we need to learn all this <expletive> when we can just enjoy the holiday as it was given. The bleeding hearts are those who try to "correct" others with this nonsense. If you don't celebrate it or celebrate it differently, then power to you. However, don't spoil it for the rest who are trying to get down in enjoying something that probably won't come again in about 365.25 days. Whether it was religious or pagan, I really don't care. What I really care about is when people put different words into something that is already commonly known as.
But that's okay, I am on a nice streak of <expletive>ing people off with their own "political correctness" medicine on things they do not count on happening. Next up, "The Holiday of Old Women who have Kids". I think it's very catchy title. Don't worry, I will end at 2016.12.31 when I go over the casualty list of holidays mauled in the name of "Holiday Equality" on my final netcast of the year before 2017.Vicious! Approach with Caution!
Because some noob has called me such and had said it so
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I don't know, but there is always some idiot out there with a massive tree trunk on their shoulder. Like the "Black Lives Matter" crowd. Hell, I am not even white, and I am sick of their stupid nonsense and sense of racial victimhood. Just pi.ss off and leave the rest of us alone.
The atheist is another bunch with a group victimhood sense. Who the hell cares if the holiday has religious roots or not? Just enjoy the damned thing, and if you don't want a holiday (hello, root is HOLY DAY!!!) then go work and leave the rest of us alone.
The central cause of all this angst is not that they feel victimised, but because they feel it is their right to stick their beak into other people's business and dictate to them what to do and what to think and how to feel. It is a malignant, malevolent, tyrannical style of thinking that invariably causes them to bully, hound, scream, assault and hurt others into doing what they want.
Sickening d-heads, the lot of them.
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I could pull up a massive list that will overload the forums of the many things (and people) that is idiotic to this day and age. However, I am just over here laughing my back end off, because most of it is just stupid. Some people just don't believe in "let live" and "leave alone".
As I have stated many posts back, I celebrate holidays that don't even fit within out of respect for friends who celebrate such and I always use that as a countdown to the one I am looking forward in celebrating. However, I am not going to have some beatnik ruin that for me or anyone else without first getting my size 13-wide boot (and breaking it off) up their hind end.
And even if I know the "origin" of a holiday, I will not spoil it for anyone else that wants to celebrate it.Vicious! Approach with Caution!
Because some noob has called me such and had said it so
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Hey, don't look at me. I celebrate all sorts of holidays, ever since birth. Chinese New Year, Aidilfitri (the muslim end of Ramadan celebation), Deepavali/Diwali, Thaipusam. You name it. Doesn't matter to me. It is all in good fun and you get to learn so many things if you ask questions and listen.
It is those oh-so-"pure" minority *cough* that ruins it for everyone.
And don't even get me started on one frakking J.Gillard who claims to champion my gender. She doesn't and never will represent me, the hateful, lying *cough*.
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I'm going to skip your rant about Ada, she can speak for herself.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostI'll be the judge of what I need to do or explain in support of my discussions. You waste your time trying to influence my style of argumentation.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostYes, I can. Because those are two different realities. One is the physical reality of biology..physically there are no cultural boundaries, cultures are social realities just like so called "races".
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostMuch of the "race" problem is that many still believe that "races" and cultures are also physical/biological realities within individuals, when in truth they are hardly even cultural realities) one cannot realistically expect to actually have much in common with someone else(socially,genetically,politically,even culturally) solely on the basis of being of the same "race" as they are popularly defined today except within the boundaries of regional contexts.
To make sure that you completely understand what I'm saying, allow me to reiterate. What I'm saying, is that someones 'race' is determined by a number of different factors, not limited to, but including, ethnicity, genetic makeup, and culture. Not just as a social construct, which is what you seem to be saying.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostIF two white people from Brooklyn,NY can be expected to have more in common than a white and black person from Brooklyn,NY.Its because of race based social conditions in Brooklyn, NY, NOT "becuase" they are both from some biologic or even sociological "white" race.
They aren't necessarily politically, culturally, socially, or genetically similar, or anymore similar than a given white person in comparison to a black person. If you're suggesting otherwise, you're going to need to site some evidence to that effect. Or perhaps, you are suggesting that people perceive them to be similar simply because the color of their skin - if someone said that about two black people, wouldn't that be considered a racist statement? You'll have to be a lot more clear about exactly what you mean, I have no wish to put words in your mouth.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostEven though that is generally true, being a social reality does NOT automatically make something nonexistent and social realities are capable of having weight in (of course) societies,historical contexts and in courts. Does the social reality of Navaho "Indian" tribe's existence mean that there is any definite, permanent and significant genetic distinction between them and the rest of humanity?
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostBut...does that fact mean that they can't have cultural attributes that are distinct to their tribe as a matter of historic fact (as a cultural identity /social reality?) Also,No.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostI like your thought experiment/scenario very good analogy..however it does not support your argument at all.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostAbsolutely, even after one overcomes the other unless they history and their cultures forget that they were once two separate groups at war and they become historically considered one cultural reality, then it stands to reason that the history of how the two tactics came to exist would have also been forgotten.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostThen there would be no sociological reason to consider either the drums or the warcry cultural distinctions inside the merged culture, but if a third tribe had begun to interact with them then these again might become a source of distinction.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostThis kind of thing happened routinely throughout history its called adoption,assimilation,and now also in a modern context: cultural appropriations.
It's kind of like having the ridiculous argument that if someone several thousand years ago didn't invent fire, there would be no such thing as fire, or the wheel. Sometimes people figure things out on their own, independantly of each other, for one simple reason - It works; it helps people to survive.
And yes, historically sometimes things were just taken, for a number of different reasons.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostPeople of distinct cultural/ethnic racial social identities have begun to keep track because they realize their customs are routinely abused, bastardized, commercialized, and even used against them (usually as disrespectful stereotypes) in chauvinist imperialistic societies.
It's a pretty prevalent theme in media really. Someone claims that person X is appropriating their culture, and yet when they describe what their culture is and why and how they are being stolen from, they refuse to acknowledge that those same elements existed in several other cultures.
I can provide evidence of this, if you're so curious.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostA ******** argument if I ever saw one. In what way has that kind of causality ever been considered as an effect on cultural attribution or any kind of authorship? **** it may have been bad weather problems that started their war in the first place does that mean that the weather created the distinct warcry or drum beats? GTFOH.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostI'm not gonna call you an idiot like you've tried to do here with me.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostI do have the right to call ******** and offense when I see it, where I live..I'm betting so do you.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostNoone is expecting to never be offended, people are expecting to have the right to take action,call ********,offense when they see it and be respected.
To be clear, I don't mean you specifically, I mean people in general.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostThese ******** are OFFENDED that people have the audacity to expressing when they offended by **** that is taken for granted in their communities.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostThey don't give a **** whose culture they offend because its not their own culture that is being disrespected or appropriated, and apparentlythey want to have the right to not have to hear the complaints either. SO their attitude is: **** those people..but they don't like it if the reply is **** you too. The big term for it is "privileged entitlement".
I'll even bite a hook for you. Some cultures do not deserve respect. Some cultures are inferior. Some cultures deserve ridicule for their treatment of others. Again, to make sure you understand exactly what I'm saying, notice I said 'cultures', and not 'peoples who are part of some cultures', there is an important distinction there.
Allow me to ask you a question. Are you a cultural relativist?
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostWhen your ready I'd like you to tell me who the hell else would someones culture "belong to" if not the people who "belong" to that culture?
As time goes on, we all intermix more and more, like you said yourself. Many aspects of culture, are at least thousands of years old. People didn't patent ideas, send them off to the copyright office and are now asserting authorship over those aspects. They are concepts, ideas and practices that have developed over a long period of time, and did not develop independently. You have no idea what someones ethnicity or culture is just by looking at them. You could just as easily be talking to someone of your own culture when you assert they are stealing your own.
Is it cultural appropriation when a white person wears Navaho garb and dances like a Native American? What if I told you that same persons, great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandmother, was a Navaho? How much Navaho blood does this person have to have before they can have the 'bigot', or 'racist' label removed from them?
If you specify an amount, you're a bigot. If you say 'any amount', 'no specific amount', or 'as long as they have something in common', then congratulations, as homo sapiens, we all share a common ancestor.
If you aren't liking that, allow me to reiterate. Since you have no ability to ascertain what someones background/ethnicity/culture is by looking at them, you have no basis for asserting they are stealing from you.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostTo this end I'll clarify that more often than not to promote equality in environments where inequality has already arisen (however so) between ostensibly differing population groups it becomes necessary to authoritatively define and distinguish these groups from one anther so as to properly ration whatever measures of equality are to be redistributed to each.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostIt is entirely possible that class groups will be created even if only temporarily in order to do this.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostIf a class group is determined to be protected and that protection extends to their artifacts or customs or the properties on which those customs take place, it can take on the characteristics of intellectual properties as well.
I believe this is an awful idea. I keep re-reading this to make sure that I'm not misunderstanding what you are saying, but it does seem to fit. You'll have to tell me how accurate you believe it is.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostHere now we know that it can carry consequences to duplicate or bastardize something that is protected by intellectual property ideals.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostI wont go into further clarification..I think you can see already where I'm going with that.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostI'll summarize my point there: IF it becomes necessary to assign intellectual property to class groups in the interest of the pursuit of equality and fair treatment of cultural heritage then I don't think it will be a very difficult to make a case for doing so.
You are saying - If it becomes necessary do to x, I don't think it will be difficult to do so.
Also, depending on where you live, not only would it be unfeasible, it would be impossible. Socially, culturally, and legally.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostParticularly if the appropriations continue to become increasingly egregious, economically disparaging, and exploitative to the extent that it can be proven to have impacts on populations in proportions that promote widespread discriminatory practices and damaging effect on the social and professional lives of individuals in a given community.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostI wont take the bait for your straw man argument.
Originally posted by R27377783 View PostIF Google and history has not already led you to believe that any cultural artifact or tradition is unique enough to be considered distinct form the rest of humanity's works
You're saying those artifacts and tradition belong solely to those specific cultures.
I'm saying, you have no basis for that assertion.Last edited by Alsatia01; 04-23-2016, 03:14 AM.
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