Who Complains the Most

[sunshinε]

Another whine class thread, this is funny.

[R226329038]

Lol. We are talking about high level players, then suddenly you blurt out a high level knight with just only less than 20k mdef? You make yourself inconsistent.

Anyways, so what if the knight has less than 50k mdef? Just like you have said, the damage he will receive will be reduced. So a mage with 50k mdef is just almost the same a knight with 30k mdef who blocks a damage will just receive that same 160kdamage...

And you forgot about he knight's talent called Persistence? So which means, the higher damage a knight receives, the greater the damage reflected to the user... Do not forget that.

Now, imagine a knight who brutal at 1 min timer with EDD to a mage, followed by awaken then a skill then delphic which made a 160k damage to Elia (note i said a knight with same attack power and crit and determination and sylph level and stat as that of sushi, so it means that knight will also do a non crit damage of 160k to Elia).... which mage will not die at that?

So what if the mage healed himself? What about then if the 200k hp knight used agoran shield? That would mean another extra 40k damage needed to do to that knight, add to that the heals he will receive from blocking during i which he shield?

What can I say is that you are not fair in judging.. you say fair, when in fact you are not....

Hmm..you misread a bit lol, higher lvl knights, on average have about 30k mdef (which is 20k less mdef than the 50k of Elia)
And, no, 7% + 20% (on block) reduced damage is far from equaling 50k mdef when at 30k. (in fact, that would be the equivalent of ~38k mdef or so...)
Persistance is not a 100% deflect passive, it has about the same chances to proc as a deflection/illusion..that's like once every few fights (some lucky guys get one per fight, but you dont even choose it, it can just deflect a basic skill), and that's only if you block.

The thing is, with 30k mdef, a knight wont even be able to reach delphic because he will die before that.
To give you an idea..you dont need to be high lvl for this. If you're a knight, just go fight a mage that has 20k less pdef than you have patck.. With just auto attacks, you will probably 2 or 3 shot him, you wont even reach awakening form, even if that mage had an hercule, it would be useless, because he wont reach that state.

I will go even further and make some calculation, since you seem not to believe me lol
Damage formula in Wartune is (Attack - Defense) /2, let's take our example (which is very common at high lvl), the mage has 50k matck and the knight has 30k mdef. The mage uses a rain of fire (140% + 25%), that's (50k * 1.65 * 1.80 - 30k) /2 = 59 250. (The 1.80 is the crit+Determination)
Let's say the knight blocks it. That's 7% + 20% damage reduce, he then takes 36083 damage. That's 1/5 of his HP down in one attack. Let's go a bit further. The mage now uses thunderer (285% + 25%), that's (50k * 1.80 * 3.1 - 30k) /2 = 124 500.
I'll stop calculating there, because i'm sure you get the idea, the knight wont reach awakening against a mage such as Sushi/Eliatan.

And, I do am fair, I actually have been thinking about a lot of things and stuff on this game.. At some point, I even wanted to share it lol, but some people in the community make it difficult xD ( understand by that, I'm not really into sharing my months of work/testing and such to ingrateful people haha, which in return (sadly) does make no one step up..(lack of word there, non-english native spotted !) )

[Kingryan]

Hmm..you misread a bit lol, higher lvl knights, on average have about 30k mdef (which is 20k less mdef than the 50k of Elia)
And, no, 7% + 20% (on block) reduced damage is far from equaling 50k mdef when at 30k. (in fact, that would be the equivalent of ~38k mdef or so...)
Persistance is not a 100% deflect passive, it has about the same chances to proc as a deflection/illusion..that's like once every few fights (some lucky guys get one per fight, but you dont even choose it, it can just deflect a basic skill), and that's only if you block.

The thing is, with 30k mdef, a knight wont even be able to reach delphic because he will die before that.
To give you an idea..you dont need to be high lvl for this. If you're a knight, just go fight a mage that has 20k less pdef than you have patck.. With just auto attacks, you will probably 2 or 3 shot him, you wont even reach awakening form, even if that mage had an hercule, it would be useless, because he wont reach that state.

I will go even further and make some calculation, since you seem not to believe me lol
Damage formula in Wartune is (Attack - Defense) /2, let's take our example (which is very common at high lvl), the mage has 50k matck and the knight has 30k mdef. The mage uses a rain of fire (140% + 25%), that's (50k * 1.65 * 1.80 - 30k) /2 = 59 250. (The 1.80 is the crit+Determination)
Let's say the knight blocks it. That's 7% + 20% damage reduce, he then takes 36083 damage. That's 1/5 of his HP down in one attack. Let's go a bit further. The mage now uses thunderer (285% + 25%), that's (50k * 1.80 * 3.1 - 30k) /2 = 124 500.
I'll stop calculating there, because i'm sure you get the idea, the knight wont reach awakening against a mage such as Sushi/Eliatan.

And, I do am fair, I actually have been thinking about a lot of things and stuff on this game.. At some point, I even wanted to share it lol, but some people in the community make it difficult xD ( understand by that, I'm not really into sharing my months of work/testing and such to ingrateful people haha, which in return (sadly) does make no one step up..(lack of word there, non-english native spotted !) )

The thing with saying that knights will not survive before he awakens is misleading.... you have not even take account the goddess blessing in your formula... and what about the troops? What if the thunderer hit the troops? What if he uses agoran shield, or apollo shield? Lots of factors will affect the gameplay... there is no way a high played knight will die before he awakens in the actual game, unless he is super weak and super noob... (you do not think a high played mage like Sushi will fought a casual free knight player, huh, and say that knight sucks?)

And do not forget that knight does attack too.... if you think that knight won't survive before he awakens, you do not think mage will die too before he awakens? If you say the average mdef of high level knight is 30k, it is plausible to say that the average pdef of a high level mage is 30k too...Why don't you try fighting a knight with 20k patk more than your pdef (e.i., in my example case, a knight with 50k patk)? I fought same br mages in bg, and troops are killed with one whirlwind, one normal attack, 1 slasher and ultislash, earning enough rage for EDD...

And, having that Persistence talent, just like I said, the higher the damage received, the higher the damge reflected... if he blocks an attack, he reduces the damage, heals himself, as well as having a chance to reflect it back... a level 10 persistence will reflect 50% damage, and it will stack with deflection astral.... Plus, you should remember that the damage reduce is by percent, which means, the higher the damage, the higher the damaged reduced...

[Geylang☠é”香嶣]

Idiots complain, players play the game.

Agreed i got a complain for beating 2 players (Knight 200k & Archer 200k BR) during WB. They even filed a ticket lol. Not my fault if they stink at playing WB.

I beat them in god descend too (wonder if im gonna get a ticket for that). Oh & in necro too.

Amazing bunch of losers who think high Br = Sure Win

[Linkoneusc]

What? you got him down half bar by the fire sylph?? it would have been a guaranteed OHKO with gaia.
Follow the steps i have stated above, I can bet anything that those would work for any archer on facing the same BR knight, you would have to get gaia one day anyway, if you want to beat knights, then those 5 steps are the only things you should remember to do.
FYI, fire sylphs do a LOT less damage to knights than gaia and by the time you use gaia's delphic, you would be doing atleast +15% extra damage( on top of the rune damage) because of gaia's passive unstable voltage and all of that would be taken as a MATK! It would definitely kill any same BR knight.
There is one more way, if you have awakening already maxed out at the start of the battle then use it after about 25-30 or something seconds and delay your delphic till the awkening points become close to 1000, by the time you reach delphic, you would have most probably built up enough unstable voltage to get a +35% or more damage, you don't even need the rune then, just delphic would be enough to OHKO any same BR knight at full HP.

I agree with you, i use all those steps in my attacks, yet gaia wins cuz the %+ the thing is he is a gaia user aswell and he can do the same... and could be he used a lot of sep in his gaia and got her stronger or dump all point into def, i can beat a lot of gaia user even 10k+ BR than me, but this guy had a good build, i have acpt he made me feel like a noob.

[deucela]

Most complaining players are low-mid lvl knights using gaia instead of AQ.I am a mage(lvl 54) and in battleground gaia(or even iris) using kinghts only do like 10%-50% of my hp dmg using gaia delphic on me + mostly they are forced to gamble with it with my troops still alive.The AQ using knights however can clean out my troops with whip attack and than kill me easiely with delphic.(even if 1 templar is still alive, it hits 2 targets)Obviously for knight cw at high lvls gaia(70+) is the way to go but for knights under lvl 70 playing bgs and willing to win vs mages its totally terrible choice.

[kattuktk]

Lol. We are talking about high level players, then suddenly you blurt out a high level knight with just only less than 20k mdef? You make yourself inconsistent. If you are talking about my knight toon, it is just level 68, and a pure non casher and non balenor player... but then you said that in the end game, which means a high leveled knight, and someone level 80 knightwith less than 20k mdef is just so, well, has no time and money invested in that game... you cannot compare a investing player to a non investing player in this game cause it is not really fair.

Anyways, so what if the knight has less than 50k mdef? Just like you have said, the damage he will receive will be reduced. So a mage with 50k mdef is just almost the same a knight with 30k mdef who blocks a damage will just receive that same 160kdamage...

And you forgot about he knight's talent called Persistence? So which means, the higher damage a knight receives, the greater the damage reflected to the user... Do not forget that.

Now, imagine a knight who brutal at 1 min timer with EDD to a mage, followed by awaken then a skill then delphic which made a 160k damage to Elia (note i said a knight with same attack power and crit and determination and sylph level and stat as that of sushi, so it means that knight will also do a non crit damage of 160k to Elia).... which mage will not die at that?

So what if the mage healed himself? What about then if the 200k hp knight used agoran shield? That would mean another extra 40k damage needed to do to that knight, add to that the heals he will receive from blocking during i which he shield?

What can I say is that you are not fair in judging.. you say fair, when in fact you are not....

You don't get anyone's point do you?? a mage will have loads more MDEF than a knight and hercules / gaia are major threats to any knight, block or not. R226.. is right about that part ofc, a mage can tank gaia much better than knights and his point is simply that if a gaia non crit does 160k to a MAGE, then it surely would have killed the knight. I can also get extremely technical and prove my point but i don think i need to do that.

[kattuktk]

I agree with you, i use all those steps in my attacks, yet gaia wins cuz the %+ the thing is he is a gaia user aswell and he can do the same... and could be he used a lot of sep in his gaia and got her stronger or dump all point into def, i can beat a lot of gaia user even 10k+ BR than me, but this guy had a good build, i have acpt he made me feel like a noob.

You said that you liked using AQ, so most likely your gaia was not buffed fully, not maxed sep or mahra.
Plus archers have ( or should have) a higher MDEF than knights, plus a huge crit rate boosted by many passives... therefore gaia attack coming from knights to archers is a much less dangerous threat than the other way around.

[Caballero1321]

Most complaining players are low-mid lvl knights using gaia instead of AQ.I am a mage(lvl 54) and in battleground gaia(or even iris) using kinghts only do like 10%-50% of my hp dmg using gaia delphic on me + mostly they are forced to gamble with it with my troops still alive.The AQ using knights however can clean out my troops with whip attack and than kill me easiely with delphic.(even if 1 templar is still alive, it hits 2 targets)Obviously for knight cw at high lvls gaia(70+) is the way to go but for knights under lvl 70 playing bgs and willing to win vs mages its totally terrible choice.

lol..
A knight with AQ isn't the best choice, actually.
AQ does ridiculous dmg to other knights.

Anyway, I used to die to a few my BR knights (135kish).
With brutallity rune, they clear my troops with just 1 Whirlwind (I have 3k+ troop count, lvl. 80 Templars).
Then, they go agoran shield, heal rune. This way, they're full HP nearly all the time.
After that, they use EDD and I'm with less than half HP. I use resto not to die too early, they awaken + brutallity and keep shooting me with Gaia.
As I have Hades (can't afford upgrading 2nd sylph simultaneously), I deal ridiculous dmg to them with my sylph. A lot lower than they deal me with their Gaias.


Important note: that's only vs. crit knights. WD knights don't deal me any dmg, luckily

[Linkoneusc]

You said that you liked using AQ, so most likely your gaia was not buffed fully, not maxed sep or mahra.
Plus archers have ( or should have) a higher MDEF than knights, plus a huge crit rate boosted by many passives... therefore gaia attack coming from knights to archers is a much less dangerous threat than the other way around.

I think my MDEF was the problem i have a bit low MDEF cuz i focus on attack, just built PDEF atm cuz CW... i will start to build my gaia and MDEF, tho' i'm tempted to get my AQ to purple before doing so.. i want to be ready to make Kerberus ASAP i get all the needed ingredients. Thanks for your advices, helped me to comprehen all the pic better, yet i still think the knight built Rocks and is way better than others knight.

[deucela]

lol..
A knight with AQ isn't the best choice, actually.
AQ does ridiculous dmg to other knights.

Anyway, I used to die to a few my BR knights (135kish).
With brutallity rune, they clear my troops with just 1 Whirlwind (I have 3k+ troop count, lvl. 80 Templars).
Then, they go agoran shield, heal rune. This way, they're full HP nearly all the time.
After that, they use EDD and I'm with less than half HP. I use resto not to die too early, they awaken + brutallity and keep shooting me with Gaia.
As I have Hades (can't afford upgrading 2nd sylph simultaneously), I deal ridiculous dmg to them with my sylph. A lot lower than they deal me with their Gaias.


Important note: that's only vs. crit knights. WD knights don't deal me any dmg, luckily

I talked about low to mid lvl knights not lvl 70-80.At lvl 50-64 knights have often a problem to get trough the troops.

[t8912]

1. Get a gaia and invest everything on it.
2. Bloodthirsty the troops till you reach awakening.
3. Awaken with brutality close to 100% mark.
4. Use delphic and see the knight fall.
5. Thank me later.

just one question respected "senior", will the knights be afk or doing auto attacks during this time? i surely don't and never will. i will try my two cents here...

1. ultimate slasher to get half or more of 1 troop hp.
2. brut + whirlwind. low hp troop goes to "senior". another troop half or so down + some damage to opponent.
3. rune still on. ultimate slasher (or just slasher if you are confident enough) to send second troop to "senior". only player left.
4. COME BISCUIT! GET DESTROYED!



this is the simplest method even EWD users can use. now throw in a chaos rune for instance. you will suck your own troops with bloodthirsty :P and there are so many other ways to counter this. and respected "senior" knights too can use gaia :P

[AntiApartheid]

AntiApartheid‎

Agreed that JamesBacmon complains the most

[Kingryan]

You don't get anyone's point do you?? a mage will have loads more MDEF than a knight and hercules / gaia are major threats to any knight, block or not. R226.. is right about that part ofc, a mage can tank gaia much better than knights and his point is simply that if a gaia non crit does 160k to a MAGE, then it surely would have killed the knight. I can also get extremely technical and prove my point but i don think i need to do that.

I think you are the one who do not see the point. The knight will really get more than 160k damage than a mage using his example, but that is without considering the 7% reduced damage, block damage, as well as the heal that comes with it... he even said that it will be reduced by 50k... now think about it... if in actuality the damage he get is 220k, then applying those reduce damage, as well as the block damage, and the heal, it would become almost around 160k (remember that he higher the damage, the higher he damaged reduced, since the formula is by percentage)... plus, if that mage survive a 160k damage, how much more a knight with a greater hp than mages? Now, that is only one sided (enemies doing damage to knight) - we have not even tackled a high played knight doing damage to his enemies...

He even increased his ridiculousness by saying a same br knight will die even before he awakens.... using only he formula of skills.... he even ignored that goddess blessig astral comes into role, as well as the talent which increases defence... surely, any knight will be able to awaken before he dies, considering it is a high level toons.

Your negativity against he knight has closed your mind.

What I am trying to say is that it is not that the class sucks - it is he player who really sucks... Just like you said that hose 110k br i defeated are stupid, then it just means that even though you have a high br or stat knight, you can still be a stupid player.

[muzza40]

So who complains the most?

Seems to me it's Knights or Archers for sure. Maybe a slight edge to the knights, since many build wrong.
Knights cry about how unfair early game and PVE events are, but they are way OP in the endgame.
Archers cry about PVP and wanting more defense, but they easily dominate PVE events.
Mages seem to just take the middle road and deal with being pretty decent at all events, but exceptional in none. I don't see a lot of mage complaint threads/posts.

So very simple one, and please be honest. What class complains the most?

What a classic comment for a mage to make! I myself have never heard an archer complain - what do they complain about? Too much gold from WB? gettin to far ahead in Sky trials, etc

"Maybe a slight edge to the knights, since many build wrong." - LOL - what an arrogant as.s.hat thing to say. I am level 80 - there is only one build for each skill tree. Moreover, our build (mid game) is restricted to the whiny mages and archers that needed us to tank in the mid game - LMFAO. And please - bear in mind the game has evolved so certain builds got fc.ked over with the introduction of e.g. sylphs, etc