Who Complains the Most

[R226329038]

not 4 sec cd its false,its 5 sec with max talent and should be 3 (but talent is bugged) but with all of its benefits of talent rage is important for as I said heals and thunder ....and yea its nice on 100k dmg 2% but 100k will never happen not in life time so its pointless to think about something like that(I 146k mage don't do 100k dmg with meteor on nether forest monsters let alone players around my br)sylph delph do around that dmg but meteor not in life time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbVXy0c9GVA
Hmm.. I see 100k+ damage RoF ontroops on all fights (almost) lol (100k X2)

[senadbasic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbVXy0c9GVA
Hmm.. I see 100k+ damage RoF ontroops on all fights (almost) lol (100k X2)

well maybe some monster mage can do 100k but its on troops and its not on player (10k dmg is seen on players when crit otherwise if he do with meteor 100k on players I cant imagine what thunder would do)

also there is shown that he is using RoF and not meteor so again im saying i don't know where u got idea meteor is popular or better otherwise he would use meteor

actually to add watched most of it every mage is using RoF and didn't see meteor

[R226329038]

well maybe some monster mage can do 100k but its on troops and its not on player (10k dmg is seen on players when crit otherwise if he do with meteor 100k on players I cant imagine what thunder would do)

also there is shown that he is using RoF and not meteor so again im saying i don't know where u got idea meteor is popular or better otherwise he would use meteor

actually to add watched most of it every mage is using RoF and didn't see meteor

Hey, dont try and get me out of topic XD
I said, Meteor was becoming more popular, because I heard a lot of mages thinking of changing to it (on different servers and vids on youtube) instead of rain of fire.

The topic was..That Kingryan didnt want to believe (or accept) that Mages were one shotting troops. He even said Knights would do more damage to the mage while taking 4 turns to reach the mage (time for the knight to clear troops). (To be simple, he seemed to think that a knight doing one whirlwind+ one EDD would be doing more damage to the mage, than the mage would do damage to him with 3 thunderer and a Rain of Fire (or Meteor).

[senadbasic]

Hey, dont try and get me out of topic XD
I said, Meteor was becoming more popular, because I heard a lot of mages thinking of changing to it (on different servers and vids on youtube) instead of rain of fire.

The topic was..That Kingryan didnt want to believe (or accept) that Mages were one shotting troops. He even said Knights would do more damage to the mage while taking 4 turns to reach the mage (time for the knight to clear troops). (To be simple, he seemed to think that a knight doing one whirlwind+ one EDD would be doing more damage to the mage, than the mage would do damage to him with 3 thunderer and a Rain of Fire (or Meteor).

well they aren't changing it and they misled u probably lied and 100% misinformed...since wartune started mages favor RoF simply put because low rage consumption

so don't get fooled by them they might misled u again and someone might tell u when reading your post he is confused

I told someone I spend 10k balens on boxes to obtain hades but it doesn't mean it is true someone might lied u

[Tranc3motion]

If your whirlwind can't kill troops in one turn, you're not cashing hard enough.

Also, meteor sucks. If a mage can clear troops with one RoF, he'd use that and save rage for thunderer. If a mage can't clear troops one turn, he'd probably still take RoF because of the low CD.

[balautoy]

For all of you guyz who arent Level 80 no one of you could appreciate knight coz of limited skills but try levelling up to 80... For those archers who said OHKO before you guyz awaken we have to do 6 turns of attack before all of us awaken... My Knight combo is brutality then whirlwind then holy seal then whirlwind that is only 4 turn but all enemies troops wipe out and enemies hp reduced 1/4th to 1/2 then 5th turn i cast bleed 6th turn i use agoran shield then we can awaken... And FYI crit isnt a problem just use guardian angel astral level 8 and see how archers will complain about doing attacks with no crit except multiple shot skill... OHKO is for low levels only with high HP of Knights level 80 ranging from 140k+ and with guardian astral with block and agoran shield and remember the resistance shards if gaia delphic doesnt crit it only hits lower than 100k...

[CrizzyB]

My first successful poll.

Good discussions and lots of strategies and knowledge being passed around. +1 to almost all of you.

[kattuktk]

I find you actually funny haha, I need more people like you to counter-say what I do..Too bad you have no valid argument for that :/ (because there actually is none lol)

You have no idea how the system works lol. If the reduce damage % was more important than defense themselves, top players would all go P/Matck, Block, Crit and HP on all socketable piece of gear, and maybe (maybe ) you reached that far in the game (that joke <3)

Ok, let's use our brain (again !) If RoF one shots troops most of the time.. What could Meteor, the skill that is becoming more popular amongst mages bring them? I'll tell you (dont worry, i'll speak to you as if you were 5 years old, so that you will understand that well), Meteor deals more damage than Rain of Fire.. If Rain of Fire one shots troops most of the time, what will a more powerful skill do? It will clear troops in turn one, while dealing good damage to the knight. ( You actually showed me you didnt watch the vids, cuz the only way Elia wasnt clearing troops, is if she didnt crit on one of the RoF attacks (it attacks twice), and I do find it funny that you can accept that knight can proc block everytime but cant accept 8k+ crit actually procs more often)
Knowing that Meteor deals more damage, mages tend to give up on Rain of Fire to take Meteor instead.

Let's talk again about the damage formula. Let's add the 50% increase damage of the Lord Divine medallion. Let's say they both have it, meaning they reduce incoming damage by 20%. Let's assume your knight blocks 100% of the incoming hits. That's a 20% + passive 7% + another 20%. The mage would be dealing more damage than in the example I actually gave you a few pages ago.

What you dont seem to grasp (or want to understand), is that, Mages will clear your troops in one aoe, and, as you said knights will take 4 turns to kill off troops. Now, does it seem logic to you, that you will deal more damage to a mage after 4 turn of not attacking him, because you were busy killing off troops, while he IS attacking you with full power? and after you do attack him with a Delphic, does it seem logic to you that he is at less HP than you when you only touched him with whirlwind + EDD? Now, does it seem logic to you, that your whirlwind will do more damage to the mage than he does to you, when his aoe one shots your troops and you barely scratch 25% of their HP?
Also, you're the one sided one, because (maybe i'll teach you something !) Mages do use block too, as well as godess blessing, and, because you obviously didnt try the formula I gave you, I did add the reduce damages in, even the healed hp of a block.

Also, are you aware that what makes the BR are actually the stats? lol 50k patck + 30k mdef, with that alone, that's actually 80k BR...
You just showed me how much you know nothing (or very few..or maybe you're a troll? lol) about the game. You probably are less than 90k BR and have no idea how top player fights actually goes. Dont worry, I dont hate you on that, I just find you funny

I get what you are saying and agree, mages start hitting the knights far earlier than the other way around( I hope the people who are saying WW hits the mage too realize how weak a skill it is compared to rof + met combo), however top knights normally kill troops in 2-3 rounds, not 4. First round WW brings the troops to low HP and in the second round the sylph passive attack will kill one of them and the knight's attack will kill the other.

However, at top levels the mages can also deal some huge damage to knights, generally the higher their BR is, the more mage can damage the knights as mage's MATK increases at a much faster rate than knights' MDEF. However, the problem at top levels is that EDD doesn't damage mage much now, you can brut + EDD all you want, but one crit heal can wipe all that out, all the defense reductions from astrals and talents stack up a lot( also most mages using hades doesn't help much). I agree that knight's PATK increases faster tha mage's PDEF, but crit heals are a real pain at high levels, unless knights go amazon, there's actually no way knights are getting past those heals( unless they somehow survive till the second timer and EDD them)

[IronBorn]

AntiApartheid‎

^+1 Thought this would be what the poll was about, soooo dissappointed when i saw it was class based

[daunapu]

on lvl 80 after chaos+ww+hs+ww, any troops are dead and the mage at my br~150k is on ~65-70%hp, just so you know since you all theorycrafting. Sometimes even 2nd ww is not necessary and i shield instead

[Kingryan]

Which works better when it comes to high damage, more mdef/pdef or more damage reduction by percent?
A 50k mdef with 40% damage reduction, or 30k mdef with 47% damage reduction? WILL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM BE SO GREAT?

You know why whirlwind does not usually OHKO the troops? Cause the troops are there to help the knights... there is a almost 50% chance to recover 4% to12% hp in 3 turns...

I agree that knights would mostly to be defeated to mage, but to say that knights at end game sucks among all classes is somehow very , ugh... Realize that well invested knight is not something to be taken lightly.

[Kingryan]

I get what you are saying and agree, mages start hitting the knights far earlier than the other way around( I hope the people who are saying WW hits the mage too realize how weak a skill it is compared to rof + met combo), however top knights normally kill troops in 2-3 rounds, not 4. First round WW brings the troops to low HP and in the second round the sylph passive attack will kill one of them and the knight's attack will kill the other.

However, at top levels the mages can also deal some huge damage to knights, generally the higher their BR is, the more mage can damage the knights as mage's MATK increases at a much faster rate than knights' MDEF. However, the problem at top levels is that EDD doesn't damage mage much now, you can brut + EDD all you want, but one crit heal can wipe all that out, all the defense reductions from astrals and talents stack up a lot( also most mages using hades doesn't help much). I agree that knight's PATK increases faster tha mage's PDEF, but crit heals are a real pain at high levels, unless knights go amazon, there's actually no way knights are getting past those heals( unless they somehow survive till the second timer and EDD them)

Pls read the hisotry of our arguments... he said that knights cannot reach mage until 3 or 4 turns, and i just rebutted him hat whirlwind can reach t he mage at first turn... I am not arguing the powerfulness of whirlwind compared to combined skills of mages... plus, he says so much things which are funny, and once i rebutted him, he just reasons out that it is an exaggeration.

Like i said, knights are not sucky... it is the players who are sucky.

[R26737621]

Dont understand Kat's argument over this OHK stuff with the gaia/hercules over knights. It's pretty much a ONK for ANY class, even most mages can't survive a crit hit from a gaia/hercules delphic unless they super casher, full health and have a damage debuff on them....lol

[Kingryan]

I find you actually funny haha, I need more people like you to counter-say what I do..Too bad you have no valid argument for that :/ (because there actually is none lol)

You have no idea how the system works lol. If the reduce damage % was more important than defense themselves, top players would all go P/Matck, Block, Crit and HP on all socketable piece of gear, and maybe (maybe ) you reached that far in the game (that joke <3)

Ok, let's use our brain (again !) If RoF one shots troops most of the time.. What could Meteor, the skill that is becoming more popular amongst mages bring them? I'll tell you (dont worry, i'll speak to you as if you were 5 years old, so that you will understand that well), Meteor deals more damage than Rain of Fire.. If Rain of Fire one shots troops most of the time, what will a more powerful skill do? It will clear troops in turn one, while dealing good damage to the knight. ( You actually showed me you didnt watch the vids, cuz the only way Elia wasnt clearing troops, is if she didnt crit on one of the RoF attacks (it attacks twice), and I do find it funny that you can accept that knight can proc block everytime but cant accept 8k+ crit actually procs more often)
Knowing that Meteor deals more damage, mages tend to give up on Rain of Fire to take Meteor instead.

Let's talk again about the damage formula. Let's add the 50% increase damage of the Lord Divine medallion. Let's say they both have it, meaning they reduce incoming damage by 20%. Let's assume your knight blocks 100% of the incoming hits. That's a 20% + passive 7% + another 20%. The mage would be dealing more damage than in the example I actually gave you a few pages ago.

What you dont seem to grasp (or want to understand), is that, Mages will clear your troops in one aoe, and, as you said knights will take 4 turns to kill off troops. Now, does it seem logic to you, that you will deal more damage to a mage after 4 turn of not attacking him, because you were busy killing off troops, while he IS attacking you with full power? and after you do attack him with a Delphic, does it seem logic to you that he is at less HP than you when you only touched him with whirlwind + EDD? Now, does it seem logic to you, that your whirlwind will do more damage to the mage than he does to you, when his aoe one shots your troops and you barely scratch 25% of their HP?
Also, you're the one sided one, because (maybe i'll teach you something !) Mages do use block too, as well as godess blessing, and, because you obviously didnt try the formula I gave you, I did add the reduce damages in, even the healed hp of a block.

Also, are you aware that what makes the BR are actually the stats? lol 50k patck + 30k mdef, with that alone, that's actually 80k BR...
You just showed me how much you know nothing (or very few..or maybe you're a troll? lol) about the game. You probably are less than 90k BR and have no idea how top player fights actually goes. Dont worry, I dont hate you on that, I just find you funny

Yeah, mages use block too, but knights DO heal when they block... and they heal 4% hp... that is what makes the difference.
Hello? Of course I know stats make up the br, but maybe you talk (or type) too much before thinking - that matk of knight and patk of mage adds up to the total br, so it is not really good to base the player's strength based on br alone... You also should know that knights have more hp because of their passive skill, meaning, if both the mage and the knight equipped 8 level 5 gems (that is fair, cause they equipped same amount and kind of gem), the knight would have more hp than mage, which makes the br of knight higher than mage..... You based on stats, not on br... (you just showed me how much you know nothing, or very few, or maybe you're a troll? lol)

For simplicity sake, let us compare a mage with 50k mdef and 40% reduce damage (30% came from the astral and 10% from the talent), and a knight with 30k mdef and 47% reduce damage (30% astral, 10% talent, 7% from Tenacity skill).

Using the formula (in very simple form)
1. Damage from a purple Gaia, assuming it has 100k matk:
a. Mage: (100k - 50k)/2 = 25k... 40% of 25k is 10k, so 25k - 10k is "15k"
b. Knight: (100k - 30k)/2 = 35k... 47% of 35k is 16k, so 35k - 16.5k is "18.5k"
-Conclusion - the knight receives more damage by 3.5k

2. Damage from a purple Hercules, assuming it has 200k matk:
a. Mage: (200k - 50k)/2 = 75k... 40% of 75k is 30k, so 75k - 30k is "45k"
b. Knight: (200k - 30k)/2 = 85k... 47% of 85k is 40k, so 85k - 40k is "45k"
-Conclusion - this is surprising, both mage and knight got the same damage of 45k!!!

3. Damage from a gold Hercules, assuming it has 300k matk
a. Mage: (300k - 50k)/2 = 125k... 40% of 125k is 50k, so 125k - 50k is "75k"
b. Knight: (300k - 30k)/2 = 135k... 47% of 135k is 63.5k, so 135k - 63.5k is "71k"
-Conclusion - very surprising, the mage with higher mdef got more damage than knight with lower mdef!!!

This is just a simple presentation of how powerful is Tenacity at higher "damage"... So that is why I said in the beginning that even though the knight has low mdef than Elia (or Sushi, whatever), the Hercules delphic will also deal a non crit damage to that knight near 160k (probably around 180-170k), which will be compensated by the high hp of knight.

These is without the trigerring the block... If both mage and knight triggered block at that Hercules delph, then knights would be more advantage cause it will heal the hp by 4% (and heal triggers first before the damage, a powerful characteristic of knight's ability)

(Maybe this is the reason why the knights in Chinese version focus on crit and block gems)... As you advance in game, stat giving defense gets lesser importance, while percentage defense gets bigger importance... (they are both important, but their degree of effectiveness are changing).

The higher the damage of the enemy (the delphics of the sylphs), the more chance the knight can survive than any class, whether that sylph be a matk or patk sylph.

So if you think that a Hercules delphic could one shot a 20k mdef knight, then that same Hercules delphic could also one shot a 40k mage... If you think that a 50k mdef mage survives a Hercules delphic with 25% life, a knight with 30k mdef would also survive that delphic with almost 25% life.

In the end, what I can say is that knights will not be a sucky class at the end-game... Each class has their own weakness, If there is someone that sucks, it is the player, not the class itself...

[Wraithraiser]

In the end, what I can say is that knights will not be a sucky class at the end-game... Each class has their own weakness, If there is someone that sucks, it is the player, not the class itself...

Only thing that really sucks is an empty wallet.