The Big "Seperate BG by BR or 5 Levels" Thread.

[MinhZye]

The only way for "fixing" bg as u wish its make is like tank every 1 have same tank same skill same lv same stat lol,oh wait so what the point for spend $$$$ for this game ?? its will never happen so deal with this and do not doing bg until u are strong enough

Look this pic and tell me who can kill her at lv 30-39 ?

[bakuryuuha]

u might have more luck if u can speak chinese and post this straight to the devs so that it gets implemented in some future patch rather than here which is so many patches behind the chinese version which is the original. Something like this would be a major change and for that to happen, the chinese version must get it first before us and not something R2 can implement on its own and waiting for them to propose the idea to the devs is going to take even more time. Best if u can go chinese server, find a few guys who can speak english to do the translating for u and post ur idea str8 to the devs and hope for the best. This section is really a useless section that only helps ppl to increase their posts and do nothing much to help with changing the game for the better.

[Atomslaya]

I'm a politician.

You sure are, speaking with 2 faces, saying one thing then claiming you never said it like that, plain ignoring half what people say if it doesn't suit you, calling other people liars when they're just repeating what you said, ...


You're really making this too easy now, I have you contradicting yourself AGAIN. Do you have memory problems?
I said you want to change br of equips, sylphs, ... a bunch of other stuff (ie i don't call astrals, runes and brutal edge equipment for isntance, i call them other stuff), you reply with:

2 Where was I saying change the all the equipment? I remeber saying equipment like the few astrals that dont give BR should.

Yes you wouldn't change the br of white, green and blue equipment, but who still uses those after a few weeks of playing. You would want to change the br every set gives, cause they all have some property that provides an edge, but doesn't add br. There are tons of item properties that don't add br atm because they don't directly affect the player stats which determine br, so yes you would be changing half the stuff in the game, you even sum them up nicely yourself in your next post.

Fine make arguments against the changes I considered by using the system as it stands now ignoring my recomendations like adding br on astrals that have none. adding br to rune levels adding br to soal and fate levels, adding br to tallent levels. ignore all this and focus on what we have now to prove Im wrong. I your right you all win...

You just summed up practically everything in the game and I'm sure you forgot to add clothing, cause a starting rage boost not adding br would be unfair too and add some br to partial and full sets, to compensate for their buffs that don't give br atm.

Lets even say your idea to add all that br is a good one, how would you determine the br some of these buffs apply?

• What br would 1 extra starting rage be worth?
• How do go you around to calculating the BR a % damage reduction applies, as the value of that reduction increases with br, but doesn't exactly scale with it.
• How much br is the +x rage per action worth?

Just saying add a little br to stuff is very easy of you. Actually thinking it out to not unbalance the game completely the way you want it is an entirely different matter. And you would risk unbalancing the entire game purely for testing a new bg system that will probably prove to be worse than what it is now.
If you really want this, then i do suggest you do what bakuryuuha said and try to find a way to contact 7road, the actual developer, yourself. Because your suggestion would require a major revamp. Especially with the additions that are still coming here and are already on chinese servers. More stuff that makes you stronger and doesn't add any br.


ps. I'm still waiting for that good reason and workable alternative.
pps. No one ever called you an idiot. The fact we think your idea isn't workable doesn't mean we're calling everyone that suggests it an idiot. Here you go again, laying words in our mouth we never said.
ppps. Your response to Arlad is correct though, it's not cause no one agrees with you that you are wrong nor is something correct just because it's repeated enough times. The fact your wrong stems from everything I and a bunch of others have added to this topic, with reasoned arguments.

[Ep!cFa!l]

u might have more luck if u can speak chinese and post this straight to the devs so that it gets implemented in some future patch rather than here which is so many patches behind the chinese version which is the original. Something like this would be a major change and for that to happen, the chinese version must get it first before us and not something R2 can implement on its own and waiting for them to propose the idea to the devs is going to take even more time. Best if u can go chinese server, find a few guys who can speak english to do the translating for u and post ur idea str8 to the devs and hope for the best. This section is really a useless section that only helps ppl to increase their posts and do nothing much to help with changing the game for the better.

An excilent Idea. Dont even need the translator.

@MolochMage funny your drop in BR to kill newbs would easly put you in range of me and 3 other guys in my guild within 5k bg as you... you have the slightest stat advantage against me pretty much tied with another and are fairly below the other 2.Your major stat difference is mostly HP but all 4 of us would stand a chance against you I belive. Atleast we wouldent need to lose a few hundred honer getting drynar blessings or whatever to kill you with ease. Also is that with or without blessing wheel bonus? While I cant speak for the other 3, mine is without. Those are your stats without any of the mods that I recommended. Please dont go saying "Wow you found 3 players out of how many? Those 3 were just the 3 I found while writing this post. Post a screen shot of them? No because I will not not going to compare stuff from one system to another to deffend myself. Your essentially trying to beat me at checkers with Chess pieces. I have posted mine though. Go ahead and say I'm gimp or whatever insult you like. My responce will be Your right. I agreed long before you sead so.

@ everyone saying I want everything changed.
1The weapon and armer are fair in their BR already,
2 Not all astrals need new br ratings only astrals without BR. EG, Ruthlessness.
3 why would I want BR on white astrals??? you cant even equip them.
4 guild tech and city tech have fair br setups.
5 Troops gain br by level, I dont know about their enlightenment. I belive they do but if not than they should.

Basicly if you put effort into building it it should reflect in your BR, why some stuff doesnt I dont know...This is all I have been saying

@Adom: Your accusing me of ignoring posts. I belive I mainly ignored parts of your posts for the most part. Stuff like chalenges on my statements that had little to do with the topic. like your post above where you attacked me for mising the word "not" in a sentance not in relation to the topic at hand. tell you what attack my spelling next. How many times have I sead I am not a politician in this thread in relation to my moral reasons for starting this thread and not about the subject of the thread itself. You attack me with the one time I made a typo. Congradulations your now went from kindergarden name calling, bypassing grade school spelling attacks and went right to highschool typos. I cant wait till you get your deploma in trolling. Admit it, this is not the waste of time your claiming. You really getting something out of this.

I admit I am suprised by how little molocmage's stats are changed by dropping equipment but even without changing anything, if you compare me and him without equipment and without changes, I am still on fair playing ground in a br system I think. Any advantage he has I feel is fair though for the price of his VIP. Having 2-3 times my br in a fightis so far from balanced its not even funny. In my eyes though BR IS FAIR and Its my ney sayers thus far proving it, I admit better than me. Go ahead, yeah his str and all thats better, but with only about 2100 br difference in his favor, Our magic attack and deffence are not all that different hes got the advantage in both which is Our primary consern. wait... whats this? an overwelming advantage in block to me? That could help. I'm not even using a block astral. I just hit 70 and havent made a 7th astral yet so I'll be jumping some more soon. my stuns only 15 so yeah I'll be taking the hit but against his stripped down just choths guy I'm game to go a few rounds If your VIP 9 why not go me in that fight?

I'm not just some kid with no money complaining the adults have all the fun. Most points against me I have adressed some points I have admited I dont have a difinitive answer to but atleast tried to make something up to demonstrait how it "Could" work but noted its not something I would set in stone. I have asked for others opinions on how they would fix that perticular issue with the threads idea. All I get is "Your Wrong" even from people admiting they cant prove they are right because its never been done. I'm trying to lay out a method for how it could be done.

Adom I'm not ignoring posts... your ignoring the whole thread.

[Atomslaya]

1The weapon and armer are fair in their BR already,
2 Not all astrals need new br ratings only astrals without BR. EG, Ruthlessness.
3 why would I want BR on white astrals??? you cant even equip them.
4 guild tech and city tech have fair br setups.
5 Troops gain br by level, I dont know about their enlightenment. I belive they do but if not than they should.

1. So you don't mind that PvP set negates a certain amount of defense rating, which is basically the same as lowering the other person's br by that amount? You don't mind that the PvP set gives people extra starting rage? You don't mind the the PvE set gives extra rage for each action? You don't mind the best bonuses from medallions (ie +% damage to players, -% damage from players and LD's +10 starting rage) not adding any br?
   How very consistent of you.
2. I never said you'd chance all astrals, I said you'd change astrals. I even mentioned EWD specifically.
3. Oh please, pretty pretty PLEASE really really really read what people say before replying. I said in my post I don't call astrals equipment, what I call equipment is anything you add in your inventory page.
   

   ...
   I said you want to change br of equips, sylphs, ... a bunch of other stuff (ie i don't call astrals, runes and brutal edge equipment for instance, i call them other stuff)
   ...
   Yes you wouldn't change the br of white, green and blue equipment, but who still uses those after a few weeks of playing.
   ...

4. Where did anyone ever mention that guild and city tech didn't add br? We even said they add br already, as they directly affect stats.
5. For the last time, I said it at least once before and think maybe even twice. I'm almost 100% certain troop lvl doesn't add any br as, again, they don't directly affect your stats except for the enlightenment bonus. Besides the specific enlightenment bonus you get, templars, hunters, paladins, ... all give exactly 0 br. So the far stronger troop doesn't add any br in itself. What does add br is the amount of troops, as your charisma stat does give br.

ps. If that attached image is you, then you deserve to be pummeled in bg's. 42k br at lvl 70 is ridiculously low. You can't even do lvl 60 mpd's (on nightmare mode) with that. (So you can't even do lvl 60 mpd's with that br, but you do expect the game to make it so that you can rock your bg being lvl 70?) I have 90k+ br as a lvl 72 non casher and even I'm losing half the battles when I go do bg's.

[Ep!cFa!l]

1. So you don't mind that PvP set negates a certain amount of defense rating, which is basically the same as lowering the other person's br by that amount? You don't mind that the PvP set gives people extra starting rage? You don't mind the the PvE set gives extra rage for each action? You don't mind the best bonuses from medallions (ie +% damage to players, -% damage from players and LD's +10 starting rage) not adding any br?
   How very consistent of you.
2. I never said you'd chance all astrals, I said you'd change astrals. I even mentioned EWD specifically.
3. Oh please, pretty pretty PLEASE really really really read what people say before replying. I said in my post I don't call astrals equipment, what I call equipment is anything you add in your inventory page.
   
4. Where did anyone ever mention that guild and city tech didn't add br? We even said they add br already, as they directly affect stats.
5. For the last time, I said it at least once before and think maybe even twice. I'm almost 100% certain troop lvl doesn't add any br as, again, they don't directly affect your stats except for the enlightenment bonus. Besides the specific enlightenment bonus you get, templars, hunters, paladins, ... all give exactly 0 br. So the far stronger troop doesn't add any br in itself. What does add br is the amount of troops, as your charisma stat does give br.

ps. If that attached image is you, then you deserve to be pummeled in bg's. 42k br at lvl 70 is ridiculously low. You can't even do lvl 60 mpd's (on nightmare mode) with that. (So you can't even do lvl 60 mpd's with that br, but you do expect the game to make it so that you can rock your bg being lvl 70?) I have 90k+ br as a lvl 72 non casher and even I'm losing half the battles when I go do bg's.

To 1 Nope it gives you all that but not easy to earn and has a fair br to it for its bonuses. At no point did I say change those. Except cloths, I mentioned cloths haveing a br was nessisary. Considering its probably the hardest to build I think its almost ignerant that it doesnt already and I sead it before, so not inconsistant at all. Remember you sead I'm not paying attention to stuff and looking like an idiot for it. But thats going off topic lol
to 2 What I call equipment is anything you can Equip on your player. Even a power pot is considered in mmo's to be an "Equip Buff" Now before you get bent out of shape over it I will state. Pots and medals should have a br because they require a minimum level when equiped, but scrolls I dont know. They are fair enough access to anyone requiring no level to use so I would exempt them but everything in this thread is a matter of devs final decition. I'm just laying some ground work.
to 3 I didnt say they didnt I sead what they did was fair.
to 4 Correct it dont. I sead it should for all the work you put into it.
to 5. Even without the change to a br rated system. You dont feel your BR should be acknowledged for all the duru you collected. those deaths at the bos those hunts thru dungions and wilds? This alone isnt reason enough to give br for troop levels (Equipped troop only ofcourse, wouldent want you to misunderstand)

to the PS Ouch that one hurt... I think I will quit this thread right now. you totally changed my mind on the topic. I SWEAR I DIDNT KNOW I"M SORRY!!! Sorry just had to give you some hope. Your trying to hard... if you were paying attention to the post you would understand that I'm pointing out it should be br because even with mp a new player has no chance. even with the slow leveling and MP they will never get anywhere near the top because everybodys 2+ years old. Even against me most noobd dont stand a chance. MP bonus be damnd they will be so behind in soal stones whips astrals that it will take them less time than you took with all the new content in events but your getting them too so they will always be 2 years behind thaat old player. Hell I was playing this game before you so that 8 month is actually less with you since I had that time before you. but as I sead the now is faster rewards. that you enjoyed so depending on how long they were implemented after I left. you could have past me due to the ratio of what you got daily back than to now. Ive only been gone 8 months and was a top player on my server, how do you think the newbs are doing? I already have all my level 70 gear pieces, just havent got the crystaloids to synth them. so dont need the nm, I plan to just do 65 normal and synth my level 5 cyrstaloids to 6 while I build my slyph astrals and other stuff. I dont even need to do BG but this is to help the newbs too.

Now I see you nitpicked the tidbits that out of context make me look bad but what is your argument against this statment proving br is fair even by people "Abusive standards" Now that I have explained myself above.

I admit I am suprised by how little molocmage's stats are changed by dropping equipment but even without changing anything, if you compare me and him without equipment and without changes, I am still on fair playing ground in a br system I think. Any advantage he has I feel is fair though for the price of his VIP. Having 2-3 times my br in a fightis so far from balanced its not even funny. In my eyes though BR IS FAIR and Its my ney sayers thus far proving it, I admit better than me. Go ahead, yeah his str and all thats better, but with only about 2100 br difference in his favor, Our magic attack and deffence are not all that different hes got the advantage in both which is Our primary consern. wait... whats this? an overwelming advantage in block to me? That could help. I'm not even using a block astral. I just hit 70 and havent made a 7th astral yet so I'll be jumping some more soon. my stuns only 15 so yeah I'll be taking the hit but against his stripped down just choths guy I'm game to go a few rounds If your VIP 9 why not go me in that fight?

[MolochMage]

Alright, EF, let me allow myself to explain.

I was being gracious in the first post I made in this thread by offering an alternative solution in the form of an "ELO" rating (as in Chess, you gain various amounts of points by winning and losing depending on your opponent's point total.) This would've been something you could've stuck with and it wouldn't have been quite so easy to shoot holes in.

Problem is even this rating would only benefit the hard cashers and fast levellers. Seeing that this is so it kind of surprises me that Wartune hasn't done anything like that already.

You can't base matching by Battle Rating if you have to change the system for calculating Battle Rating so much that it will look nothing like it is today. I can think of no way to come up with a reasonable formula that takes all things into account. Can you?

You'd have to consider -

Troop count, attack, defense, hp, level.
Player level (lower level has an automatic damage penalty.)
Starting rage and rage per action.
Rune types and rune levels.
Actual crit and block chances as opposed to the static numbers.
Damage boosts and damage reductions caused by various astrals and medals.
Talent levels.
Class specific passive boosts.
Sylph types, qualities, levels, battle ratings and skills.

All this and you still need to consider the raw MATK, PATK, PDEF, MDEF, HP etc of the player.

And I'm not even close to scatching the surface here.

[Sylvannah]

Agreed with what u said , u just said what is going in the mind of everyone who hasnot paid hundreds of thousands here and still would want to enjoy the game not being a punching bag for the big spenders

+1

[Ep!cFa!l]

Alright, EF, let me allow myself to explain.

I was being gracious in the first post I made in this thread by offering an alternative solution in the form of an "ELO" rating (as in Chess, you gain various amounts of points by winning and losing depending on your opponent's point total.) This would've been something you could've stuck with and it wouldn't have been quite so easy to shoot holes in.

Problem is even this rating would only benefit the hard cashers and fast levellers. Seeing that this is so it kind of surprises me that Wartune hasn't done anything like that already.

You can't base matching by Battle Rating if you have to change the system for calculating Battle Rating so much that it will look nothing like it is today. I can think of no way to come up with a reasonable formula that takes all things into account. Can you?

You'd have to consider -

Troop count, attack, defense, hp, level.
Player level (lower level has an automatic damage penalty.)
Starting rage and rage per action.
Rune types and rune levels.
Actual crit and block chances as opposed to the static numbers.
Damage boosts and damage reductions caused by various astrals and medals.
Talent levels.
Class specific passive boosts.
Sylph types, qualities, levels, battle ratings and skills.

All this and you still need to consider the raw MATK, PATK, PDEF, MDEF, HP etc of the player.

And I'm not even close to scatching the surface here.

Troop count is messured by tech and chrarisma so br there is already done Adding br to troops level would be simple as they are cardboard copies of anyones troop. Mounts and slyphs give br by level and they are farm more complicated, why not troops? link it to the duru cost of enlightenment and level. now simply work out a forumula something like "Total BR of equipped troop= (total spent duru in enlightenment + Level) / Base # of duru for 1 BR point (Say 10k I dont know) The hardest part is the formula everything after that is just getting the code right. There is not actually as much work as your making it out to be. Time consuming and monotonous yes. Far from as arduous as people make it sound. Modifying something is far easier than writing everthing from scratch which you all seem to think this is. adding 1 stat to some items, locking out some menus and changing the requirements to enter a br. thats it. nothing else in BG gets changed. (Unless you also add my respawning gate guardians or just moving the drop off guy into the base to safly dump carts instead of fighting the campers with a 50% speed debuff. Totally optional)
Why do low levels suffer a further penalty in damage? Having lower stats is no handycap enough? OMG a spider... forget the spray can get the 9 gauge
Starting rage and RPA, most items that do this except cloths have fair BR why would you cry that your BR is raised because of your cloths?
Rune type should matter little really, level should get a BR though. With all the work for it why wont you accept acknowledgement for your level of equiped rune?
It would be nice if you could mouse over the numbers and see a %. Crit and block are already BR'ed though and so far as I can tell fairly.
Non stat based astrals would need BR and I think astrals should get more BR based on level, just like techs.
Do I need to go into talents after astrals and runes?
Class passives. The classes are fair. I havent seen an argument about this at all from anyone anywhere. I didnt look specificly but dont remember it ever coming up anywhere I read.
Yep slyphs needs a number of thing but alot that you mentioned is done already your BR goes up after points spent from leveling are used. Never checked if BR is affected by quality.

Your the one that posted the example I used to show BR even as it sits now with your abusive unequiped player. is still a fair match... Statistically. Your player stats were way higher but your raw combat stats were close to par with me, with a majority advantage to you, which I feel is fair since you are paying cash for advantages. and had I think 2600 br advantage...

From what I'm hearing... BR CANNOT show a players actual power since not everything is rated. So why do we rank everybody and everything by br EXCEPT bg?
Seriously think about it would you let me into a NM lych with you?
I qualify to be with you since I am the right level...But you wont, Why?
Because I dont stand a chance?
Fine how about we do arena?
What now?
You dont want a have a parisite on your team?
Its okay in bg though,
than how about Spire, guild battle?
Oh your going to take him or her over me for last spot because they have more br?
MY LEVELS HIGHER!!!!

Yeah you might not care about taking a lower player into a spire or arina, if the others backing you can handle it. Might even take him to GW is theres a space and your teams got the advantage already. You might even be sadistic enough to take me to a level 70 run if you already used your attempt. Generally though you want things to go smooth. You dont want to put yourself at risk. Hell I would help under those circomestances. I'm a selfish altruist. I'll give a stranger the shirt off my back, so long as it doesnt put me in any detriment to do so. Its how people should be. Right now I'm giving my shirt to the newbs since I have nothing to lose. Most people attacking this thread can say that. Cash player or not.

I dont care about the cash bonuses. you deserve them if your buying them. You also deserve the BR on alot of stuff you dont, even if BG never goes BR.

I do grant you one thing though. Your still better in this debate than adom. I dont feel I'm wasting my time with you. We may never see eye to eye but I'll respect you because your atleast providing examples of why you think I'm wrong, instead of trying to attack me directly. I mean attacking someone because they named themselve epicfail... I have the self esteam to keep using it and laughing at it. How does he figure I would be insulted by it? Its so school ground posturing.

@Sylvannah: Ty for the kind words

[MaccteN001]

The only way for "fixing" bg as u wish its make is like tank every 1 have same tank same skill same lv same stat lol,oh wait so what the point for spend $$$$ for this game ?? its will never happen so deal with this and do not doing bg until u are strong enough

Look this pic and tell me who can kill her at lv 30-39 ?

LMAO I love this, I think this is the funniest reply and demo/screenshot here. Yeah with HS so high and level 65 templar troops and sylph, who can kill that in 30-39 bg (or as according to the OP, around 20k br below which is usually level 30s anyway) without HS, sylph and level 39 max gryphon troops. Just throw in HS then afk, let the templar do the damage while they also tank you.

[Ep!cFa!l]

Which is why I called for those BR modifications menntioned throu out the whole thread. Those troops would cost more br the non stat astrals the high rune levels. etc

[ball0n]

Which is why I called for those BR modifications menntioned throu out the whole thread. Those troops would cost more br the non stat astrals the high rune levels. etc

Its already explained

Lets even say your idea to add all that br is a good one, how would you determine the br some of these buffs apply?

• What br would 1 extra starting rage be worth?
• How do go you around to calculating the BR a % damage reduction applies, as the value of that reduction increases with br, but doesn't exactly scale with it.
• How much br is the +x rage per action worth?

Just saying add a little br to stuff is very easy of you. Actually thinking it out to not unbalance the game completely the way you want it is an entirely different matter. And you would risk unbalancing the entire game purely for testing a new bg system that will probably prove to be worse than what it is now.
If you really want this, then i do suggest you do what bakuryuuha said and try to find a way to contact 7road, the actual developer, yourself. Because your suggestion would require a major revamp. Especially with the additions that are still coming here and are already on chinese servers. More stuff that makes you stronger and doesn't add any br.

[WarMC]

I think OP needs to learn on how to fix himself.

Whiner mentality is I am losing let's protest to change environment to suit me.

Winner mentality is I am losing let's see how I can change myself to win.

[BarataYuda]

You know, all these very long discusions/arguments are pointless (mod/G.M never ever gonna read them...too long)

If you really need much honor from BG (this thread is about BG), then do what I do. Get your lvl 9 VIP friends to help you out, farm honor from them. However this cant be done innew servers, but hey who knows....there're few crazy cahsers out there

[zirc00]

Here is a summary for anyone that doesn't want to read the whole thread:

There is a guy who is 42k and level 70 *****ing that BG is too hard.