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Runaway Mage Healing

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  • Originally posted by OhBummer View Post
    Look, it's quite simple: My 20% hp boost gives me 100k more health than mages at my BR. Equal BR mages restoration crit heals them for over 300k and their blessed light crit heals them for between 400-500k and yes I use guardian angel rune, their heals still mostly crit. Okay, so that's my 100k more health compared to a class that can heal roughly 1,000,000 health every 60 seconds (resto 2 x 30 sec & blessed light 1 x 60 sec).

    Now on these forums, I've heard people say stuff like, "mage healing is not OP in PvP" and "stop whining and deal with it." These people are either totally ignorant or totally bias based on the fact that they don't want their class to be nerfed in pvp. But it needs to be nerfed in pvp and it needs to be done soon or all you will see will be mages doing pvp in this game. I'm already starting to see this shift, mainly in Flame Temple.
    I want to know who these Mages are that heal for these numbers. Really.

    I'm a 600k BR Mage and most East-Coast Mages know me well. I heal for 125k-150k on Resto. I heal about 200k on Heal Rune. I don't carry BL. My Sunto heals me for 33k per tick, unless it's scattered / purged that's 230k Healing over time.

    IF I drop out of EWD into Crit, swapping out Gems to get the 25k Critical I need to trigger Crit-Heals about 1/2 of the time, my Crit-Resto is 270k - 320k. In doing this I sacrifice over 20k PDef. If I want to Crit-Heal more than 1/2, I have to ditch GA and now I have no crit Reduction. Lets look at some numbers....

    Losing 20k PDef vs. an Archer or Knight means I take 10k more damage EVERY HIT until the 50% Mark, when every hit now does 15k more Damage and eventually 20k More Damage at 100%. Plus, a 50% Greater Chance of a Crit against me, which means half of that extra damage is increased by 115%. So doing the match, that is, over time, an increase of 15,750 Damage per Hit from Def Loss. It's also about another 25% increase in Damage over time from existing attacks - so long as your enemy is using Critical Hits.

    So if a Mage was taking 200k HP Damage from 8 strikes leading up to the 50% mark, they'd now be healing a loss of about 375k HP instead because of loss of GA and PDef. 200k * 1.25 = 250,000 + 8 * 15,750 (126,000) = 376,000. The overall damage increase from the increase in Crit Frequency plus the extra damage per attack would be about 75% more damage total than operating under EWD as a Mage and keeping all PDef Gems instead of Crit Gems as well as keeping a L10 GA in place.

    Even if I split my Def loss between PDef and MDef to make up the Crit Numbers, I'd still be taking 50% more damage in the long run - but from all classes instead of just non-Mages.

    Now you might be saying, "Hey - taking 50% more damage is worth it when you're healing for 100% more on Crits!" And that's a potentially valid argument - until you get to the point where the timer damage increase doesn't affect Heals and you realize that in the 8 actions you could have taken before the 50% damage buff, where you'd normally attack 7 and heal 1, you're now healing 4 and only attacking 4 with basic LBs to keep regaining Rage. So you're actually doing next to no damage anymore, and just drawing out a long fight hoping to win in pet mode.

    Be glad when you see a Mage Crit-Healing. It means they're gimping themselves by taking so much more damage all they can do is heal and LB to stay alive. If you're not really doing any damage to a Mage in Crit Mode, you're just out of your league. Find another target.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Zorich View Post
      Losing 20k PDef vs. an Archer or Knight means I take 10k more damage EVERY HIT until the 50% Mark
      Your barrier talent is at 0? You do not wear a GB astral? Your res is 0 for all elements? You do not wear a medallion?

      Pdef and mdef mean less than they used to.

      Now...I'm not arguing that crit is better for PvP than EWD--I agree with you that EWD is better; however, the difference is not nearly as large as you make out.

      Comment


      • As a mage, I suggest we stop healing all the archers and knights on this thread.

        Not sure why you guys are still arguing about this. Classes hardly matter anymore. If you can't kill someone, cash more.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by FufuBunnySlayer View Post
          Your barrier talent is at 0? You do not wear a GB astral? Your res is 0 for all elements? You do not wear a medallion?

          Pdef and mdef mean less than they used to.

          Now...I'm not arguing that crit is better for PvP than EWD--I agree with you that EWD is better; however, the difference is not nearly as large as you make out.
          Raw stats do matter, u just have to fight dryaded ppl to see how the raw stats (pdef/mdef) reduce dmg drastically lol, not saying every1 should have em very high
          but they do matter in the end.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tranc3motion View Post
            As a mage, I suggest we stop healing all the archers and knights on this thread.

            Not sure why you guys are still arguing about this. Classes hardly matter anymore. If you can't kill someone, cash more.
            Then we wont tank and deal all the damage for you
            IGN: princestewii
            Class: Archer
            Server: Kabam 86

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            • Originally posted by princestewii View Post
              Then we wont tank and deal all the damage for you
              Lol if that was true, this thread wouldn't exist.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by KS222 View Post
                As I've stated before, anyone can have OP heals in PvP. Go crit build and use Triton; OP heals are yours. Your GA might nerf those crit heals a bit, but you can always go without, like us crit mages are forced to so we can benefit more from our crit heals.
                As i said before, if triton wasn't weak to hercules you'd see 99% of player running triton in bg.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by llivetorace View Post
                  where do you get your low heal numbers ??? i dont see any mages healing that low in temple . but done argueing i have spoken with my wallet , other than vip and covenant R2 gets no more of my money if they leave things as they are i will have more money to tip the bartender ,
                  This exactly. I'm pretty much over it. keeping account active in case something changes but don't really see a point anymore. sylphs ruined the rock paper scissors analogy. It no longer applies.
                  Last edited by R2sucksbad; 03-19-2015, 07:23 PM.

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                  • Originally posted by KS222 View Post
                    As I've stated before, anyone can have OP heals in PvP. Go crit build and use Triton; OP heals are yours.
                    Are you trying to sound retarded? "if you want to heal, use the weakest sylph. Then you'll be just like us mages who have endless heals equipped with the most powerful sylphs"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by FufuBunnySlayer View Post
                      Your barrier talent is at 0? You do not wear a GB astral? Your res is 0 for all elements? You do not wear a medallion?

                      Pdef and mdef mean less than they used to.

                      Now...I'm not arguing that crit is better for PvP than EWD--I agree with you that EWD is better; however, the difference is not nearly as large as you make out.
                      DR Talents / Astrals / Medal bonuses aren't on stacks. It's x% DR and then y% DR of what's left and then z% Dr of what's left. I remember seeing a forumla a while back that showed the max "effective" DR one could achieve as a Mage was 50.2% - which is big, don't get me wrong. But the PvP Medal alone gives back a 40% Damage Boost in PvP that stacks with (not taken separately from) Deter and/or EWD damage. I've generally considered that PvP esentially washes out Damage Boost vs. Damage Reduction when all is said and done.

                      In any event, I'll give you a 40% Medal Damage buff partially offsetting the 50.2% DR Chain and thus reduce my #s by 10% and say it's an extra 14k damage per hit being taken instead of 15.7k. Still not enough to make Crit even remotely worthwhile for the defensive loss.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
                        As i said before, if triton wasn't weak to hercules you'd see 99% of player running triton in bg.
                        Am I the only one that thinks Triton's are awesome compliments to Knights in PvP regardless of resistance issues? My Knight uses a Hercules in PvE, but PvP is all Triton.
                        • Awaken
                        • 300% Damage Ice Bolt
                        • 90% Healing Warm Spring
                        • 133% Healing Rain Dance
                        • 280% Damage +Stun Chance Delphic
                        • 30% HP Ice Shield
                        • 90% Healing Warm Spring
                        • 300% Damage Ice Bolt

                        You're talking about nearly 900% Damage in 3 Shots that are spaced out enough that a Guardian Rune can only reduce 1, and you know it'll always be against the "weakest" one - the Delphic.

                        Once he gets his runes higher and more dependable, I'll come out of that with an Intercept + Amnesia & Thrasher, provided my enemy is out of Sylph mode. Will buy me a free ride (as long as it gets no-rage cost skills) until I can awaken again, especially since it's a 75 Rage Drain at 50%, and then 100 Rage at 100%.

                        As to the "weakness" run some Elec Dims to build it and make those resist crystals your priority. Even with an Iris on, my main runs over 1000 Elec Resist.

                        Next, those 300% Attacks are actually really freaking good. The best single-target non-delphic on any pet. Other Sylphs have multiple 200% to 240% Attacks, but none have that 300% shot w/ only a 25s CD allowing it to be reused. You do as much damage in 3 Hits that an Athena user takes 5 Hits to do.

                        And using the "Average" Knight of say 100k PAtk and 500k HP. those 3 Heals, non-crit, should be doing close to 400k in total Healing, plus that Shield that absorbs another 150k Damage. When all those heals Crit, that's going to be a near a Million HP in Healing going off in time to their big attacks, pretty much negating them and leaving you full.

                        Your biggest enemy is Chaos hijacking Heals, in which case you move up the Shield since it can't be jacked and follow with an earlier Delphic to clear it. If it's a timed Chaos - nothing you can do really - just like a Mage. I was tempted to get Tsunami just to clear Chaos (it does, it's nice), but I'd have had to sacrifice Rain Dance for it, and I need that and the Delphic for group PvP.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Zorich View Post
                          Am I the only one that thinks Triton's are awesome compliments to Knights in PvP regardless of resistance issues? My Knight uses a Hercules in PvE, but PvP is all Triton.
                          • Awaken
                          • 300% Damage Ice Bolt
                          • 90% Healing Warm Spring
                          • 133% Healing Rain Dance
                          • 280% Damage +Stun Chance Delphic
                          • 30% HP Ice Shield
                          • 90% Healing Warm Spring
                          • 300% Damage Ice Bolt

                          You're talking about nearly 900% Damage in 3 Shots that are spaced out enough that a Guardian Rune can only reduce 1, and you know it'll always be against the "weakest" one - the Delphic.

                          Once he gets his runes higher and more dependable, I'll come out of that with an Intercept + Amnesia & Thrasher, provided my enemy is out of Sylph mode. Will buy me a free ride (as long as it gets no-rage cost skills) until I can awaken again, especially since it's a 75 Rage Drain at 50%, and then 100 Rage at 100%.

                          As to the "weakness" run some Elec Dims to build it and make those resist crystals your priority. Even with an Iris on, my main runs over 1000 Elec Resist.

                          Next, those 300% Attacks are actually really freaking good. The best single-target non-delphic on any pet. Other Sylphs have multiple 200% to 240% Attacks, but none have that 300% shot w/ only a 25s CD allowing it to be reused. You do as much damage in 3 Hits that an Athena user takes 5 Hits to do.

                          And using the "Average" Knight of say 100k PAtk and 500k HP. those 3 Heals, non-crit, should be doing close to 400k in total Healing, plus that Shield that absorbs another 150k Damage. When all those heals Crit, that's going to be a near a Million HP in Healing going off in time to their big attacks, pretty much negating them and leaving you full.

                          Your biggest enemy is Chaos hijacking Heals, in which case you move up the Shield since it can't be jacked and follow with an earlier Delphic to clear it. If it's a timed Chaos - nothing you can do really - just like a Mage. I was tempted to get Tsunami just to clear Chaos (it does, it's nice), but I'd have had to sacrifice Rain Dance for it, and I need that and the Delphic for group PvP.
                          I see you like to write much, probably talk much too, but why most of it must be completely irrelevant or examples that will NEVER happen? 900% damage in 3 shots, heals and so on....

                          Your triton knight will die in 2 max 3 hercules skills, seen so many optimists like you, nothing to do with resistance.
                          THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE'S JUST ME.

                          Comment


                          • @Zorich, when u get oneshotted by hercules delphic u can't heal I've oneshotted enough orange triton to know that sylph br doesn't matter there, it's just all about resistance and unless u stack electro really high (after nerf u'd need probably 3 adv electro to have decent res with a triton) u're gonna get oneshotted by a same br.

                            Lol didn't read full post. 1k resistance with triton on? How and which dimension? I'm curious And once those expire? What will you do? Also how much honor do you get this way in each bg? 1k?
                            Last edited by SlowPlay; 03-20-2015, 10:45 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
                              @Zorich, when u get oneshotted by hercules delphic u can't heal I've oneshotted enough orange triton to know that sylph br doesn't matter there, it's just all about resistance and unless u stack electro really high (after nerf u'd need probably 3 adv electro to have decent res with a triton) u're gonna get oneshotted by a same br.

                              Lol didn't read full post. 1k resistance with triton on? How and which dimension? I'm curious And once those expire? What will you do? Also how much honor do you get this way in each bg? 1k?
                              Mages above a certain br don't use hercs anymore... They're simply outclassed by dark sylphs.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
                                @Zorich, when u get oneshotted by hercules delphic u can't heal I've oneshotted enough orange triton to know that sylph br doesn't matter there, it's just all about resistance and unless u stack electro really high (after nerf u'd need probably 3 adv electro to have decent res with a triton) u're gonna get oneshotted by a same br.

                                Lol didn't read full post. 1k resistance with triton on? How and which dimension? I'm curious And once those expire? What will you do? Also how much honor do you get this way in each bg? 1k?
                                1 Intermediate Dimension to get Movement to 10 while using the Hercules in Dim.
                                1 Advanced Dimension - takes ~5 days to clear @ 10 Cost per Move. (Clear Int Dim when Done)
                                1 Expert Dimension - takes ~15 days to clear @ 10 Cost per Move.

                                All L7 Resist Crystals = 450 Resist. 50% Bonus from Expert, 25% Bonus from Advanced = +337 Bonus = +787 Total From Crystals.
                                Expert Dim = +300 Resist, Adv Dim = +100 Resist. 400 + 787 = 1187 Resist Gained, less the -200 w/ Triton = 987 Electric Resist.

                                That's with 2 Dimensions.

                                Just saying it ain't that hard. Just takes time and the patience to acquire the Dimensions in inventory and use them in succession.

                                Also, stop putting all your Def in Pdef (not you in particular, but Knights in general). Keep your Defenses as Balanced as possible. One takes so much less damage from an opponent outside of pet form and so very few Knights run a PAtk pet that it would make sense that any 500k BR+ Knight at this point should be running at least 80k MDef buffed. To illustrate the effectiveness of the reverse, my Mage runs 100k PDef buffed, so Gaia and Cerb don't really scare me all that much unless it's on someone that's 100k+ BR ahead of me. Similarly, I gear my resists to Electro because the Herc Damage Stack + 470k Delphic is about the only attack that has any chance of 1-shoting me in the game.

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